oxygen
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Post by oxygen on Feb 7, 2016 14:48:16 GMT
Morally/ethically then yes everyone probably should be.
The health stuff you've mentioned isn't factually correct though.
Watching a documentary with an agenda to showcase one side is idiotic. They'll always cherry pick what they want to show and be very bias.
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Cashis
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Post by Cashis on Feb 7, 2016 14:54:35 GMT
Morally/ethically then yes everyone probably should be. The health stuff you've mentioned isn't factually correct though. Watching a documentary with an agenda to showcase one side is idiotic. They'll always cherry pick what they want to show and be very bias. There are multiple studies which show that vegans will generally live longer lives with less chance of cancer, heart disease etc. I'll link them up later if you want. Obviously the docs will be biased, as would a documentary supporting the consumption of meat, I'm not telling ppl to watch a doc and be like right yeah I'm going vegan, look at both sides and come to a conclusion.
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oxygen
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Post by oxygen on Feb 7, 2016 15:23:34 GMT
There are also plenty of studies showing that high levels of protein consumption are better for health, that saturated fat isn't overly bad for you.
A major problem with all the studies is they are comparing extreme ends of the scales. They are looking are very out of shape, heavy people and saying that vegans live longer. Who is to say it's meat consumption making the people die earlier?
Vegans will naturally eat more vegetables, fruit etc. this will get them a lot more vitamins, minerals etc and contribute to better health. It's also quite rare for vegans to be overweight. Not because veganism magically makes you slimmer but as you know yourself when on a plant based diet it can be difficult to consume a high number of calories.
Also those who choose a vegan diet are generally more health conscious and a lot of them also don't smoke, don't drink etc. So some of the time you are looking at correlation and not necessarily causation.
What about a meat eater who is a healthy weight? Who still eats lots of fruit and veg? What are the studies like on those?
There is a tonne of information showing meat consumption has lots of health benefits. The red meat causing cancer is probably one of the worst backed up claims ever made.
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Slim Jim
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Post by Slim Jim on Feb 7, 2016 15:25:11 GMT
I'm not vegan but I don't eat anywhere near the amount of meat that I used to, partially moral partially health related. When I do eat meat, I try to be wary about what I buy but realistically I have no fucking idea where it comes from, putting a lot of trust in the person/company selling it.
Don't drink cows' milk any more, switched to (usually) Alpro products. Still cave and buy cheese every now and then.
Basically what it comes down to is that these things are tasty, which is a bullshit argument but you'll struggle to argue against it because regardless of what you say, people will still find them tasty. Big problem with getting people to eat veggie/vegan is that they have no fucking clue how to cook something that tastes nice in that kind of diet. Sometimes I think we need a 'life skills' lesson in schools where kids learn shit like how to cook because it's not hard (and once you know what you're doing it's fun throwing a meal together).
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Post by Heung-Min Pleat on Feb 7, 2016 15:48:01 GMT
I can tolerate vegans who aren't in your face about it but in my experience it is largely in their eyes a badge of honour and a title of self serving yuppish arseholery. Like the kind of morons who go to 'chill out yah' in the trendy juice bars drinking prune juice and sticking celery up each other's creases I can also tolerate a meal without meat but only in the same way I tolerate my everyday life without a spaceship parked on the bed - an eventual feeling of emptiness and going without Sorry mate, but that's complete shite. If you knew how much the majority of them cared about animal life and how little of a shit they give about people's opinions of them then you'd change your opinion immediately. If you think someone would purposely eat (generally) worse tasting food and make such a big life choice as to remove all meat and dairy from their diet along with only buying products not tested on animals, no clothes made from cruelty to animals etc. *just* so they can say "I'm a vegan" then I would reconsider. This is a dumb response from someone who I thought a lot more of. I genuinely do think it and see it, I've lived in two of the most image conscious places in the country where exterior image 100% comes before personal opinions, there are plenty of people with sky high personal perceptions and ground floor foreheads. 21st century yuppies who see things like social gathering and social media as a bragging tool 'I'm doing this and that for charity because I'm the salt of the earth, I'm so humble I've only made 40 posts about it this morning'. Its been an ever growing part of London and the surroubding commuter belt areas for probably since before I was born, there are plenty of people in and around London who care more about their image than their health, job or anything else that facilitates their image. Do I reckon there is a percentage of them who are vegan because it'll score them points with management, sophisticated successful persons of the other sex, Tarquin and Sebastian, school teachers or anyone else they spend defining their image around so they can wriggle in? As the yuppies would say 'ya bro for sure'
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Cashis
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Post by Cashis on Feb 7, 2016 15:50:30 GMT
There are also plenty of studies showing that high levels of protein consumption are better for health, that saturated fat isn't overly bad for you. A major problem with all the studies is they are comparing extreme ends of the scales. They are looking are very out of shape, heavy people and saying that vegans live longer. Who is to say it's meat consumption making the people die earlier? Vegans will naturally eat more vegetables, fruit etc. this will get them a lot more vitamins, minerals etc and contribute to better health. It's also quite rare for vegans to be overweight. Not because veganism magically makes you slimmer but as you know yourself when on a plant based diet it can be difficult to consume a high number of calories. Also those who choose a vegan diet are generally more health conscious and a lot of them also don't smoke, don't drink etc. So some of the time you are looking at correlation and not necessarily causation. What about a meat eater who is a healthy weight? Who still eats lots of fruit and veg? What are the studies like on those? There is a tonne of information showing meat consumption has lots of health benefits. The red meat causing cancer is probably one of the worst backed up claims ever made. I get that there are a hell of a lot of variables that go into studies that can often make them pointless, biased or inaccurate. however, processed meat has been grouped as group 1 carcinogenic (can cause cancer cell growth in humans) and red meat overall is group 2a - probably causes cancer growth in humans. Think about the physical process of eating meat (a dead animals flesh/organs) combined with fuck knows what added chemicals drugs and preservatives and would it surprise you to find out in a few years that red meat is confirmed carcinogenic?
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Post by ange postecoslamp on Feb 7, 2016 15:54:33 GMT
They wouldn't exist any more if people didn't eat them. 99% of the animals we eat are terribly equipped to survive without human input So what, we're doing them a favour by putting them in cramped slaughterhouses and then killing them orrrrr? You may be right, in which case that'd be fine - just like if an animal rapes or kills another animal, that's nature. There's nothing natural about mass slaughtering them at an unsustainable rate in factories which cover 45% of our earth's land In fact, surely if animals couldn't exist without us evolution would come into play and eventually they'd overcome that like they always have done? No, and I definitely think there's ethical questions over the way it's done, but the concept of raising animals purely for food isn't unethical or cruel in itself in my eyes
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Cashis
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Post by Cashis on Feb 7, 2016 15:54:41 GMT
Sorry mate, but that's complete shite. If you knew how much the majority of them cared about animal life and how little of a shit they give about people's opinions of them then you'd change your opinion immediately. If you think someone would purposely eat (generally) worse tasting food and make such a big life choice as to remove all meat and dairy from their diet along with only buying products not tested on animals, no clothes made from cruelty to animals etc. *just* so they can say "I'm a vegan" then I would reconsider. This is a dumb response from someone who I thought a lot more of. I genuinely do think it and see it, I've lived in two of the most image conscious places in the country where exterior image 100% comes before personal opinions, there are plenty of people with sky high personal perceptions and ground floor foreheads. 21st century yuppies who see things like social gathering and social media as a bragging tool 'I'm doing this and that for charity because I'm the salt of the earth, I'm so humble I've only made 40 posts about it this morning'. Its been an ever growing part of London and the surroubding commuter belt areas for probably since before I was born, there are plenty of people in and around London who care more about their image than their health, job or anything else that facilitates their image. Do I reckon there is a percentage of them who are vegan because it'll score them points with management, sophisticated successful persons of the other sex, Tarquin and Sebastian, school teachers or anyone else they spend defining their image around so they can wriggle in? As the yuppies would say 'ya bro for sure' Whilst I don't doubt these people exist, I highly doubt they make up a sizeable amount of the vegan population and even if they did they could still hold a moral superiority over meat eaters in this specific matter, because perversely, their pig-headed social media-filled selves would be contributing more to lessening the harm on this planet and animals than you or I.
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Post by The Quito Diet on Feb 7, 2016 16:04:23 GMT
Idk the phones and tablets they use to tell the world how good they are will have been constructed in some shitty Taiwanese factory full of six year olds and spreading masses of pollution into the planet too.
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Stu
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Post by Stu on Feb 7, 2016 16:06:14 GMT
I only know one vegan irl and she's one of the nicest people I've ever met. She likes and shares all of it on facebook which is annoying, but 90% of her fb friends are vegan as well so its understandable and I just scroll past it and ignore it (unless im drunk and I want a bacon argument). She's never once tried to convert anyone at work to veganism, I used to sit and eat McDonalds next to her at lunch and she'd say nothing cos she knows its all a personal choice in life.
Thats where I dont think l96 gets what being a vegan is all about. It isnt just a diet. Its a way of life, changes completely how you see the world compared to everyone else. They dont buy products from companies that have anything to do with animal testing, no fur products, no slaughter house food, campaign for people to take in shelter animals instead of breeder puppies. Its a hell of a lot more than just not eating meat and dairy and eating vegetables instead. I have complete respect for them as it is a massive thing to evolve basically your whole life around. Just deciding you'll one day stop eating meat once you have the 'perfect' body doesn't in any way make you a vegan at all.
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Post by Heung-Min Pleat on Feb 7, 2016 16:11:17 GMT
If you ever venture into somewhere like Shoreditch and should stumble across a trendy bistro with 'oh such ambience' of a Tuesday lunchtime you'll see who these arseholes are
Also thread should be called 'We are pig ignorant for not going vegan'
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Cashis
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Post by Cashis on Feb 7, 2016 16:19:52 GMT
If you ever venture into somewhere like Shoreditch and should stumble across a trendy bistro with 'oh such ambience' of a Tuesday lunchtime you'll see who these arseholes are Also thread should be called 'We are pig ignorant for not going vegan' Haha I knew shoreditch would get a mention Sorry for my initial reply to you btw, only did it cos I know you're a big boy
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Post by Maskya Yoshida on Feb 7, 2016 16:45:11 GMT
There are also plenty of studies showing that high levels of protein consumption are better for health, that saturated fat isn't overly bad for you. A major problem with all the studies is they are comparing extreme ends of the scales. They are looking are very out of shape, heavy people and saying that vegans live longer. Who is to say it's meat consumption making the people die earlier? Vegans will naturally eat more vegetables, fruit etc. this will get them a lot more vitamins, minerals etc and contribute to better health. It's also quite rare for vegans to be overweight. Not because veganism magically makes you slimmer but as you know yourself when on a plant based diet it can be difficult to consume a high number of calories. Also those who choose a vegan diet are generally more health conscious and a lot of them also don't smoke, don't drink etc. So some of the time you are looking at correlation and not necessarily causation. What about a meat eater who is a healthy weight? Who still eats lots of fruit and veg? What are the studies like on those? There is a tonne of information showing meat consumption has lots of health benefits. The red meat causing cancer is probably one of the worst backed up claims ever made. I get that there are a hell of a lot of variables that go into studies that can often make them pointless, biased or inaccurate. however, processed meat has been grouped as group 1 carcinogenic (can cause cancer cell growth in humans) and red meat overall is group 2a - probably causes cancer growth in humans. Think about the physical process of eating meat (a dead animals flesh/organs) combined with fuck knows what added chemicals drugs and preservatives and would it surprise you to find out in a few years that red meat is confirmed carcinogenic? I don't mean to be a knob, but don't you still drink alcohol? If we're talking on solely health basis surely that should be the first change.
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Post by Heung-Min Pleat on Feb 7, 2016 16:55:12 GMT
If you ever venture into somewhere like Shoreditch and should stumble across a trendy bistro with 'oh such ambience' of a Tuesday lunchtime you'll see who these arseholes are Also thread should be called 'We are pig ignorant for not going vegan' Haha I knew shoreditch would get a mention Sorry for my initial reply to you btw, only did it cos I know you're a big boy Dont be sorry lol it only show you're genuine and aren't one of the people I was referring to tbh
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Cashis
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Post by Cashis on Feb 7, 2016 18:05:22 GMT
I get that there are a hell of a lot of variables that go into studies that can often make them pointless, biased or inaccurate. however, processed meat has been grouped as group 1 carcinogenic (can cause cancer cell growth in humans) and red meat overall is group 2a - probably causes cancer growth in humans. Think about the physical process of eating meat (a dead animals flesh/organs) combined with fuck knows what added chemicals drugs and preservatives and would it surprise you to find out in a few years that red meat is confirmed carcinogenic? I don't mean to be a knob, but don't you still drink alcohol? If we're talking on solely health basis surely that should be the first change. Yeah, I also do coke every now and again. I'm not saying I'm changing my life in any way, it's merely a discussion on the subject itself
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