sween
Key Player
Posts: 8,059
Likes: 8,057
Team: sunderland
|
Post by sween on Dec 2, 2016 14:19:12 GMT
no
|
|
|
Post by you give me rrrroad rrrrage on Dec 2, 2016 15:12:10 GMT
Tbh I can definitely see why he's done it. He probably realises he'll never get the recognition of a Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso from his generation and has hungry guys like Max coming up behind. He has a kid as well and the Bianchi accident really proved you can't take anything for granted in the sport. What else does he have to prove?
Inb4 Hamilton tries to get Max Chilton to fill the other Mercedes seat. All the guys who have moved teams already must be gutted.
|
|
U R GAY
Regular
Posts: 2,432
Likes: 873
|
Post by U R GAY on Dec 2, 2016 16:05:12 GMT
Really hope Mercedes get a proper driver in and not some jabroni number #2 driver. If it's going to be a 1 car Championship again, it needs that battle.
Hamilton vs. Vettel would be superb. Would take Alonso in that car too. Max would be an interesting one though I'd like to see him stick with Red Bull. Same with Ricciardo. He's another who I think is the real deal. Not convinced on likes of Bottas/Perez/Hulkenberg, and anyone else lower down, definitely not, at the moment.
Hamilton vs Rosberg even, was too big of a quality gap, really, any race where it was close or Hamilton didn't have issues, Hamilton was always gonna win. Same with Vettel vs Webber, Vettel far superior.
And before that, when Ferrari were a top team, Barichello & Massa were always the distant #2 drivers (except 2008 when Massa gave it a good go)
Vettel/Hamilton could be a throw back to the likes of Senna/Prost days. Best two drivers. Best car. I'd sit and watch that.
|
|
|
Post by you give me rrrroad rrrrage on Dec 2, 2016 16:27:33 GMT
Have Mercedes had enough of squabbling teammates, though? It's taken years off Toto's life lol. I think Pascal Wehrlein is their third driver atm and I wouldn't be surprised if they just bumped him up. If I had my way Alonso would get the drive as I really want him to have one more decent crack at the Championship.
|
|
|
Post by The Quito Diet on Dec 2, 2016 17:08:51 GMT
Only two drivers who would get close to Hamilton are Alonso and Verstappen.
I rate Ricciardo highly but he doesn't have the raw speed/race craft of those three.
Vetted couldn't even outperform Raikkonen this year, the bloke is an alright driver unless the car is perfect.
With how they drive, Hamilton / Verstappen would be amazing.
|
|
U R GAY
Regular
Posts: 2,432
Likes: 873
|
Post by U R GAY on Dec 2, 2016 17:27:46 GMT
Only two drivers who would get close to Hamilton are Alonso and Verstappen. I rate Ricciardo highly but he doesn't have the raw speed/race craft of those three. Vetted couldn't even outperform Raikkonen this year, the bloke is an alright driver unless the car is perfect. With how they drive, Hamilton / Verstappen would be amazing. Man won a GP in a Toro Rosso! He's finished comfortably ahead of Kimi both years they've been at Ferrari - and last year he was the only person who looked remotely close to Merc. Vettel's won more GPs in the last 2 years than Danny, Max & Kimi combined and I think he's been fairly unmotviated/frustrated for most that time and fighting through the field which isn't his strength. He knows how to win and dominate races from the front. Mercedes can give him that car. I think it would be a very interesting battle.
|
|
|
Post by The Quito Diet on Dec 2, 2016 20:46:59 GMT
Maldonado won a GP in a Williams.
From the midway point of the season Vettel has been comfortably outperformed by Kimi. He's only a driver I'd class in the same bracket as Hamilton and Alonso if he has the perfect car. Hamilton/Alonso would challenge for a title in the 3rd best car on the grid. Vettel wouldn't imo.
Don't think he's as much a racer either, he's a front runner. Nothing wrong with that, it works when he has the car, and when his teammate isn't the sort of racer that Hamilton, Verstappen, Alonso is. I wanna see Hamilton up against someone else who'll make ridiculous overtakes so that if it is just between the two Mercedes next year, at least it'll be a back and forth contest.
|
|
sween
Key Player
Posts: 8,059
Likes: 8,057
Team: sunderland
|
Post by sween on Dec 2, 2016 20:53:49 GMT
as if kimi is some mug they pulled from the stands
|
|
|
Post by The Quito Diet on Dec 2, 2016 21:05:49 GMT
Of course he's not but after one great season back with Renault he had 18 poor months at Ferrari.
Easier way to look at it; Hamilton or Alonso alongside him definitely wouldn't be being beaten by him too often.
|
|
U R GAY
Regular
Posts: 2,432
Likes: 873
|
Post by U R GAY on Dec 2, 2016 22:32:04 GMT
Maldonado won a GP in a Williams. From the midway point of the season Vettel has been comfortably outperformed by Kimi. He's only a driver I'd class in the same bracket as Hamilton and Alonso if he has the perfect car. Hamilton/Alonso would challenge for a title in the 3rd best car on the grid. Vettel wouldn't imo. Don't think he's as much a racer either, he's a front runner. Nothing wrong with that, it works when he has the car, and when his teammate isn't the sort of racer that Hamilton, Verstappen, Alonso is. I wanna see Hamilton up against someone else who'll make ridiculous overtakes so that if it is just between the two Mercedes next year, at least it'll be a back and forth contest Disagree with that, Hamilton didn't manage to challenge for titles seriously at any point when Vettel was dominant. Including getting outperformed by teammate Button one season. His record in a car 4th-6th fastest on the grid was about as unimpressive/par for the course as Vettel's has been. And in my opinion the gap between the best team and the 2nd best team has been way bigger during the Mercedes dominance than it was during the Red Bull dominance - 3 guys have won races other than Rosberg/Hamilton in the last 3 years - Vettel (3), Ricciardo (3), Verstappen (1). When Vettel was on top, you were getting 4/5 different winners every season. If Hamilton had been at Red Bull this year, I'm fairly confident he wouldn't have won a race other than ones Mercedes fucked up in. And I'm right there with you thinking Hamilton is one of the best on the grid, the car just makes that much difference. If Maldonado & Gutierrez had Mercedes #1 and #2 and Hamilton and Vettel had Ferrari #1 and #2 I'm 99.5% convinced Mercedes still win the Constructors and World Title. I'm happy for any of the above to replace Rosberg to be honest, Max would be great, he'd definitely be able to race wheel to wheel with Hamilton, and I agree, they're both probably better 'racers' than Vettel - though I do feel Vettel is slightly underrated in this aspect - I do feel that Vettel's proven track record of leading the pack and maintaining a lead is more of an important skillset to winning a title than being a good driver/overtaker though in terms of a serious challenger to Hamilton. I also just feel with age and experience he's more susceptible to being dominanted on team orders whereas Vettel has a name, a reputation and titles to back it up and he can go in there and go toe to toe with Hamilton with neither probably wanting to give an inch - ultimately this will probably be why they don't go with it as it will cause more headaches than its worth - they'll win the constructors whatever if they're as far ahead as they were this year but it would be fun to see from a sporting pov.
|
|
|
Post by The Quito Diet on Dec 2, 2016 22:47:39 GMT
Maldonado won a GP in a Williams. From the midway point of the season Vettel has been comfortably outperformed by Kimi. He's only a driver I'd class in the same bracket as Hamilton and Alonso if he has the perfect car. Hamilton/Alonso would challenge for a title in the 3rd best car on the grid. Vettel wouldn't imo. Don't think he's as much a racer either, he's a front runner. Nothing wrong with that, it works when he has the car, and when his teammate isn't the sort of racer that Hamilton, Verstappen, Alonso is. I wanna see Hamilton up against someone else who'll make ridiculous overtakes so that if it is just between the two Mercedes next year, at least it'll be a back and forth contest Disagree with that, Hamilton didn't manage to challenge for titles seriously at any point when Vettel was dominant. Including getting outperformed by teammate Button one season. His record in a car 4th-6th fastest on the grid was about as unimpressive/par for the course as Vettel's has been. And in my opinion the gap between the best team and the 2nd best team has been way bigger during the Mercedes dominance than it was during the Red Bull dominance - 3 guys have won races other than Rosberg/Hamilton in the last 3 years - Vettel (3), Ricciardo (3), Verstappen (1). When Vettel was on top, you were getting 4/5 different winners every season. If Hamilton had been at Red Bull this year, I'm fairly confident he wouldn't have won a race other than ones Mercedes fucked up in. And I'm right there with you thinking Hamilton is one of the best on the grid, the car just makes that much difference. If Maldonado & Gutierrez had Mercedes #1 and #2 and Hamilton and Vettel had Ferrari #1 and #2 I'm 99.5% convinced Mercedes still win the Constructors and World Title. I'm happy for any of the above to replace Rosberg to be honest, Max would be great, he'd definitely be able to race wheel to wheel with Hamilton, and I agree, they're both probably better 'racers' than Vettel - though I do feel Vettel is slightly underrated in this aspect - I do feel that Vettel's proven track record of leading the pack and maintaining a lead is more of an important skillset to winning a title than being a good driver/overtaker though in terms of a serious challenger to Hamilton. I also just feel with age and experience he's more susceptible to being dominanted on team orders whereas Vettel has a name, a reputation and titles to back it up and he can go in there and go toe to toe with Hamilton with neither probably wanting to give an inch - ultimately this will probably be why they don't go with it as it will cause more headaches than its worth - they'll win the constructors whatever if they're as far ahead as they were this year but it would be fun to see from a sporting pov. The only person who got even close to the Red Bulls in those seasons was Alonso, once, and that season he was freakishly good. That season you mention where Button outperformed him is the only time in his entire F1 career (bar this season now obviously) that he's been outperformed by a teammate. I agree that the car plays a huge part, which is why you judge a driver these days just as much against his teammates as you do against others; but Hamilton has won world titles at two teams, Alonso has nearly won it with 2 different teams since winning it with Renault. 100% disagree with your conclusion there, the Mercedes isn't that far in front, by most experts estimates it's about a tenth of a second ahead per lap and the difference between a top tier driver and one of the backmarkers is about 2 tenths a lap. Aye don't take me saying Vettel's quality of leading from the front as a negative, just that from an entertainment point of view someone who would go wheel to wheel with Hamilton would be awesome to watch. More of Bahrain Mercedes dog fights please.
|
|