Stu
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Post by Stu on May 12, 2015 19:44:51 GMT
You say that as if it wasn't finished already. Nothing to lose by exposing the lies he's been fed.
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EdinBruges
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Post by EdinBruges on May 12, 2015 19:46:47 GMT
This just shows exactly why they were right not to trust him, as soon as he doesn't get what he wants he's gone to the papers with a sob story.
That's not to absolve the ECB of any blame and I think Graves has had an absolute shocker here. But this is precisely why nobody in the dressing room would want KP back.
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Stu
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Post by Stu on May 12, 2015 19:54:03 GMT
They went to the media first with news of the meeting that took place last night, it was all over the internet before KP was even back home. The whole trust thing is absolute bollocks and they've shown absolutely none to him in order for him to give it back. It works both ways, both parties are to blame. I'm not absolving KP of any blame. Graves came in and said to him that if he joined a county and scored runs again, it would be a clean slate and he could be back into contention for a call up. He's done exactly that, no moaning from him, he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone about his batting credentials, he's the best batsman England have ever had, but he swallowed his pride and went back to Surrey (for no money, £250k less than he would have if he stayed in the IPL). He scored nearly 300 runs in a single day, more than England managed in either of their previous innings as a whole team. On that very night he's told he isn't what England need at the moment. Seriously? We don't need an explosive batsman who can turn a test match in a single session?
The whole thing has been a joke from start to finish, but the way he's been blatantly lied to when the end product was always going to be this, is a horrible and cuntish thing. The ECB should be crucified for it.
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Бенне
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Post by Бенне on May 12, 2015 20:02:23 GMT
As we've clarified I'm not KP's biggest fan but aye, this has been handled fucking awfully.
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Post by Szilard Nemeth on May 12, 2015 20:02:47 GMT
Shut up Stu
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EdinBruges
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Post by EdinBruges on May 12, 2015 20:06:34 GMT
They went to the media first with news of the meeting that took place last night, it was all over the internet before KP was even back home. The whole trust thing is absolute bollocks and they've shown absolutely none to him in order for him to give it back. It works both ways, both parties are to blame. I'm not absolving KP of any blame. Graves came in and said to him that if he joined a county and scored runs again, it would be a clean slate and he could be back into contention for a call up. He's done exactly that, no moaning from him, he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone about his batting credentials, he's the best batsman England have ever had, but he swallowed his pride and went back to Surrey (for no money, £250k less than he would have if he stayed in the IPL). He scored nearly 300 runs in a single day, more than England managed in either of their previous innings as a whole team. On that very night he's told he isn't what England need at the moment. Seriously? We don't need an explosive batsman who can turn a test match in a single session? The whole thing has been a joke from start to finish, but the way he's been blatantly lied to when the end product was always going to be this, is a horrible and cuntish thing. The ECB should be crucified for it. You or I don't know who leaked reports of a meeting taking place. The trust thing isn't bollocks at all, the bloke is that insulated in his little bubble that he doesn't realise the gaping holes his actions opened up; texting the Saffers about your captain is one thing, going to print slagging your entire team off is another thing entirely. If, and again it's an if as we only have Pietersen's word on it, Graves told him those were the pre-requisites for a recall then he should be heavily criticised as they've strung him along (as I've said in here previously), but all the difficult questions Strauss, Graves and the ECB were likely to face as a result of this have all mostly vanished now because they can sit and feel vindicated in not trusing Pietersen because of this. A large part of the trust issue would have been if there was another falling out, can they expect a second book and for more mud to be dragged out into the open? Seems their fears were well held. Don't bring up a comparison between him scoring 300 against a shite team and England's innings at test level, it entirely misses the point and is beyond illogical in it's foundations. It isn't about his talent, it's never been about his talent, no one man is bigger than the team.
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Post by Бенне on May 12, 2015 20:09:01 GMT
Quick point just to add I'm fairly convinced the trust issue refers also to KP texting Smith advising the Safricans to bowl a certain way at James Taylor. Team player.
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EdinBruges
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Post by EdinBruges on May 12, 2015 20:10:58 GMT
I thought it was because he called Strauss a Xhosa.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on May 12, 2015 20:12:27 GMT
Only text proven was him calling Strauss a doos. Never heard any allegation about Taylor, there was one that he texted them how to get Strauss out which he denied (consequently Strauss got out by a straight one lol)
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Stu
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Post by Stu on May 12, 2015 20:12:54 GMT
The only time he has gone to print with anything is when the door has been well and truly slammed in his face. He didn't release a book before he was told he'd never play for England again and he didn't do this column until they had fucked him over again.
I'm not saying his integration into the side would be easy, far from it. He has a lot to settle with Cook, which might not even be possible and if he can't sort out his problems with the captain then maybe he's better off away from it. He never had the chance to sort those problems out, Strauss should be doing everything in his power to find a way for the best batsman in English history to return to the side. Instead he's backed his mates and told KP to get fucked. It's a ridiculously petty thing to do just days after he was appointed to this new shit role.
Like I said earlier, scoring 300 is an amazing achievement, regardless of who its against. No one else has scored 300 against them whilst they've been a shite side. No one else has scored nearly 300 runs at just under a run a ball and all in a day of play. No one in the England side is capable of batting like that and winning a match with that kind of attacking play. We struggle to ever make 300 in a test innings anymore, I don't see the logic in leaving KP out.
All of the best players in the world, over any sport, come with an ego. They get told they're the best constantly, it's only right that comes with an inflated opinion of yourself. Coaches need to work out how to fit those players into the side. The England team don't need to be best mates, they don't need to be going round eachothers house for a film night every week. They need to go on the pitch and win games and atm they aren't doing that.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on May 12, 2015 20:16:38 GMT
For the record, Vaughan has come out and said he rejected the ECB role because for a number of reasons and one of those were the fact that he wanted his best players (including KP) available for the side. Suggests decision was made before Strauss was appointed and he was just in agreement with it.
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Бенне
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Post by Бенне on May 12, 2015 20:18:51 GMT
Several reliable sources on the Notts scene suggested that re: Taylor. No reason to disbelieve them.
Re your arguments about 300 Stu, can you not see the difference between a Test match against ANY TEST ATTACK and against Leicestershire, who have failed to win a game for 3 whole seasons? I agree 100% it's a great achievement, but stop with that comparison please. Kevin Pietersen is a great batsman and it was one of his best innings, but what's that changed honestly? No one was doubting his ability anyway really, the only thing that's made it an issue is the timing of that innings with Strauss' interview with him, which quite frankly, is only an issue cos Colin Graves opened his fucking mouth once again. Don't be angry at Strauss for sticking to his guns, be angry at Graves and his branch of the ECB for giving Pietersen false hope, which is 100% a dick move.
That last paragraph is also clearly written by someone who's never played cricket. And if you can't see that there's a difference between not being best mates, and a complete lack of trust, then more fool you.
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EdinBruges
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Post by EdinBruges on May 12, 2015 20:22:54 GMT
The only time he has gone to print with anything is when the door has been well and truly slammed in his face. He didn't release a book before he was told he'd never play for England again and he didn't do this column until they had fucked him over again. I'm not saying his integration into the side would be easy, far from it. He has a lot to settle with Cook, which might not even be possible and if he can't sort out his problems with the captain then maybe he's better off away from it. He never had the chance to sort those problems out, Strauss should be doing everything in his power to find a way for the best batsman in English history to return to the side. Instead he's backed his mates and told KP to get fucked. It's a ridiculously petty thing to do just days after he was appointed to this new shit role. Like I said earlier, scoring 300 is an amazing achievement, regardless of who its against. No one else has scored 300 against them whilst they've been a shite side. No one else has scored nearly 300 runs at just under a run a ball and all in a day of play. No one in the England side is capable of batting like that and winning a match with that kind of attacking play. We struggle to ever make 300 in a test innings anymore, I don't see the logic in leaving KP out. All of the best players in the world, over any sport, come with an ego. They get told they're the best constantly, it's only right that comes with an inflated opinion of yourself. Coaches need to work out how to fit those players into the side. The England team don't need to be best mates, they don't need to be going round eachothers house for a film night every week. They need to go on the pitch and win games and atm they aren't doing that. Even excusing him for the book given he thought his international career was over (and that's a massive leap to do so because it was nothing more than attempted character assasinations rather than an actual autobiography about his achievements as a cricketer and life in general), surely he should have realised the damage that it caused and probably held off going to the press this time to try and bury them? THhis is typical Pietersen and precisely why the ECB, Strauss and the other players likely don't want him in the team, it's baggage, it's drama, it's all about him. I don't get everybody accusing him of being petty when he offered the guy a place in the coaching set up rofl, seems like an easy cop out rather than admitting Pietersen caused simply too much damage with his previous actions. Aye his score was a decent achievement, and he'll likely go out on a career high score and not play first class cricket again because he's that sort of character. But the chance of him turning in an innings like that simply isn't worth the risk of him having yet another catasrophic falling out that ends up in an entire team having their names and reptuations dragged through the mud for the sake of selling some books. This whole "nobody is suggesting they need to be best mates" thing is ridiculous, cricket is like no other sport in terms of how isolated it can be. Look at the toll it's taken on players previously mentally, then start to appreciate why although you don't need to be pally pally, you do need to have the belief that the bloke you've spent the past 2 months travelling Asia with isn't grinning at his phone because he's just told Kumar you're a cunt and can't handle the short ball. The only issues that need dealing with as a result of this whole thing is what did Graves say, and were any promises made. If so, then by all means fire away at them.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on May 12, 2015 20:24:00 GMT
The same Notts scene that made the KP parody account?
Also re: Stu's last paragraph, several international cricketers have mentioned similar, they've played plenty of cricket I think.
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Бенне
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Post by Бенне on May 12, 2015 20:25:29 GMT
The same Notts scene that made the KP parody account? Also re: Stu's last paragraph, several international cricketers have mentioned similar, they've played plenty of cricket I think. I'm not referring to Stuart Broad and his clique, they're considered cunts round here too. And I was more referring to the way it dismisses any link between being in a good squad atmosphere and team success.
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