#FreeBTS
Talisman
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Post by #FreeBTS on May 13, 2019 23:32:12 GMT
Willing to give the show writers far less of a ‘well GRRM didn’t make it easy uno’ pass these days but I found this interesting
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Post by daveyposhboy on May 14, 2019 3:00:58 GMT
Thing is that's been known since day dot. They were always going to get to this point.
For me, they're just awful writers whom without source material, and even individual episodes constructed by GRRM, wanted to be done with the project (hence the stupid number of episodes irregardless of individual length).
Probably why that prequel mini-series has been panned. Hiding behind the "production costs" excuse because they can't adapt sufficiently from GRRM's books on the era so thought "stuff this".
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on May 14, 2019 5:41:01 GMT
I thought it was because she's decided that the only way she's going to be able to keep the throne over Jon is through pure fear? She even said to Jon "Fear it is then." And didn't Jon tell his soldiers not to attack and just fought back when people attacked him or am I remembering that wrong? Tbf, the Jon thing was just funny, I agree he had to defend himself. Can't convince me on Dany though, the switch is insanely rushed. If she'd just burnt down the Red Keep and collateral damage from that had killed peasants then sure, but she literally went from talking about the mercy of killing the few to save the many to Mad King BURN THEM ALL. Have her over eagerness for revenge lead to wild fire blowing up parts of the city, have the peasants scream at her that she's a monster. But don't have her do it purely to instill fear when that's something you've set up at best for an episode and a half compared to the previous 7 seasons of her caring for every innocent death. Watching a character go through an intense fall is great when it makes sense, but this was basically a face-heel turn with no proper thought behind it. Dany going mad fits with her character over the last 8 seasons and is foreshadowed many times. Not got any issue with that.
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allah
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Post by allah on May 14, 2019 7:08:30 GMT
If you watch the scene she snaps in we see her focused intensely on the Red Keep. She's staring at it with hatred, we can tell as an audience that she wants to destroy it and Cersei and damn anyone else in it. Its great facial acting. She takes off on Drogon heading directly towards the Red Keep. As we cut to Cersei seeing her doom approaching, the younger more beautiful queen coming to take everything from her as she waits in the Red Keep. The scene shows her getting tunnel vision over destroying the Red Keep, ignoring the surrender and getting the revenge she deserves.
And then... she meanders around burning the city instead for 15 minutes killing indiscriminately. That's just bad writing. Doesn't matter if it's foreshadowed, if it doesn't make sense to the character in the moment then it's bad writing.
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notpropaganda
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Post by notpropaganda on May 14, 2019 8:33:43 GMT
Yeah I agree, it didn’t feel earned at all. People can list out all the signs from over the years all they like, anyone she burned alive was an explicit enemy from memory. She locked up her dragons for going rogue on the peasants in Essos ffs! But they set up the people of King’s Landing being her enemy for not rising up against Cersei with literally one sentence to Tyrion early in the episode. It’s nonsensical writing.
And if Jon refusing to kiss her and her saying “fear it is then” is a further hint, then it’s even worse. “Oh a man won’t love me, better kill everyone” is just awful.
Like I said earlier in the thread I was quite enjoying her fall, and was feeling really sorry for her, but nothing felt earned in that episode from the wider story.
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notpropaganda
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Post by notpropaganda on May 14, 2019 8:35:49 GMT
Like even if a final lone scorpion shot at her in that moment, or if she actually saw Cersei, anything to make her snap completely like that I could maybe get on board with. But nope.
The explanation they gave is that she’s won everything she’s worked for in that moment, “and she’s all alone” and that makes it worse again for me because it didn’t come across at all.
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Simon
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Post by Simon on May 14, 2019 9:55:35 GMT
And if Jon refusing to kiss her and her saying “fear it is then” is a further hint, then it’s even worse. “Oh a man won’t love me, better kill everyone” is just awful. I get your fruatration with the character development but that's grossly over simplifying it. A constant narrative of this season has been her awareness that she is going to be completely unaccepted and untrusted by people in the North as well as Kings Landing, with even Jon's family taking a clear and unsubtle disliking to her whilst she sees everyone around her fawning over Jon, including her closest advisors who have turned on her. Without her and her dragons everyone would have been fucked and she's lost 2 in the process but still she is cast aside in Jon's shadow. After all she has worked for she is slowly losing nearly everything and then finally she even loses the love of Jon. Despite "winning" at Kings Landing she's still incredibly paranoid about losing power to Jon. I'm not saying it's all air tight and great writing or that it's necessarily an appropriare resposne - But there's more to it than simply "Jon didn't kiss her so she lost her shit" or implying that she was completely level headed and in control until the bells went and then she suddenly had a meltdown out of nowhere. She's been falling apart at the seams and becoming emotionally charged and losing her way for a while now.
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notpropaganda
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Post by notpropaganda on May 14, 2019 10:54:16 GMT
But where has that come from, especially from the south? Northerners distrust everyone that isn’t from the North, that’s no surprise. Are we to believe she’s suddenly a complete idiot? If she felt so alone in Westeros, why didn’t we see more of that, or of her leaning on the likes of Jorah and Missandei when they were still around? What evidence is there that nobody else in the 7 Kingdom’s trusts or loves her? There is none. She had an alliance with everyone against Cersei just last season.
Like I said, I could get on board with her going mad but it feels really unearned to me.
The losing Jon’s love thing just doesn’t come across well either. I get what you’re saying and as a plotted out line it makes sense, but when I’m watching it I don’t believe that they ever loved eachother, so it comes across as a desperate power play that’s more about his lineage. And that doesn’t sit well either.
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Post by ange postecoslamp on May 14, 2019 14:11:07 GMT
just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at you doesn't give you basis for government!
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on May 14, 2019 20:49:20 GMT
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Post by you give me rrrroad rrrrage on May 15, 2019 9:18:39 GMT
Completely missed that Varys was trying to use that girl to poison Dany’s food early in the episode.
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Бенне
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Post by Бенне on May 15, 2019 12:23:12 GMT
The more I dwell on this the more unforgivable some of the backtracking on character development is, absolute joke what they’ve done to Jaime
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#FreeBTS
Talisman
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Post by #FreeBTS on May 15, 2019 14:56:08 GMT
I don’t really mind him going back to Cersei, GRRM has said that he writes a lot to do with redemption, and the Jaime character in particular is an exploration of the meaning of redemption. I just wish it was shown in a better way, the whole sleeping with Brienne thing is just ridiculous stupid fan service, as well as saying that basically boys and girls can’t just respect eachother and be friends. But it’s more once he’s back to Cersei that nothing happening is completely stupid. It would make so much sense and be narratively pleasing for there to be a repeat of what happened with Aerys, but then we got whatever that was instead.
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Бенне
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Post by Бенне on May 15, 2019 15:26:03 GMT
I signed out of his whole arc conclusion when he said to Tyrion he never much cared for the common folk. Nah mate you literally earnt your derisory nickname that you “wear with pride” for killing Aerys because he was going to massacre the common folk...
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Post by Visar Musliukas on May 15, 2019 20:46:28 GMT
Meh i guess im happy that i'll always have The Wire
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