sween
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Post by sween on May 8, 2014 16:48:14 GMT
why dont they just let b teams join the paint pot or have a new trophy for them and lower league teams to both play in
or juat create a reserve league that has a proper promotion and relegation system or something
greg dyke is a fucking cunt and a half. last summer he tried to blame sunderland for england being shit the thick twat
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on May 8, 2014 17:03:44 GMT
Fucking nonsense. Want English players at the highest level? 3 simple steps: Change the rule that says foreign academy graduates count as home-grown. Change the u-21 rule for squads to u-19's. Increase the minimum 'Home-Grown' from eight to ten. Then you enforce those rules and hey presto, there'll be more English players in the Premier League. Pretty sure the reason for "home grown" is to get round discrimination laws. You can't discriminate against people based on their nationality for employment in this country (or most). Changing to U19 is pointless. The problem age for players is 19-21 as they are often too old for youth teams and not quite developed enough to keep up a first team place. This is where most players drop out of the system. The B team thing is nonsense though. Players can go out on loan to the lower leagues to get competitive football without ripping the soul out of the lower leagues. I actually think the biggest reason for the problem facing English football is the high fees commanded for English players (which the home grown rule contributes to). Big clubs are buying up younger and younger players in order to try and get them cheaper rather than waiting until they have fully developed and then buying the best players. This means instead of staying at lower league clubs and playing young players go into Academy's and stagnate in non-competitive football.
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Childish
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Childish.
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Post by Childish on May 8, 2014 17:07:13 GMT
^ That's what I meant by saying I like the idea in theory (edit: at Sweenys post)
I like there to be some way of youth football getting more exposure, and them getting to play in something more competitive and with proper teams...but adding them to leagues just has too many issues. Adding them a) League Cup or even the Paint Trophy gives them that bit more exposure without cocking up the leagues
The idea of making foreign academy graudates not count as homegrown is fine and would probably work long term, but the youth coaching is so shite (trust me I actually am one and the coaches and parents are both awful) that it means English football would go through a 10 - 20 year period of being awful in European football. They'd never approve it.
The best solution I can think of is announce that in like 10 years foreign players wont count as academy graduates, nor will players bought from another club after age 12 or something. That way big teams cant just go rob all of Southampton or Crewes good 16 year olds that they developed in order to meet the quota. Give them 10 years so they can revamp and put more focus on youth football so the standard of player improves, rather than having a really English league that get the quarter finals in Europe at the furthest - because no PL teams will back it otherwise.
Changing it too quickly that Andy J suggests means that you end up with what the Bundesliga has become 2004 - 2010. One/two teams (probably us and Chelsea tbh, and Utd) just steal everyone elses young players once they're developed. Then Spurs, Everton etc end up with very English teams but its like Anton Ferdinand, Scott Carson and Dave Nugent while we have Shaw, Barkley and Hart.
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Post by Maskya Yoshida on May 8, 2014 17:10:17 GMT
I'd like to think there would be too much of a backlash for it to happen.
Most football pundits are against it.
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Mycon
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Post by Mycon on May 8, 2014 17:19:35 GMT
Fucking nonsense. Want English players at the highest level? 3 simple steps: Change the rule that says foreign academy graduates count as home-grown. Change the u-21 rule for squads to u-19's. Increase the minimum 'Home-Grown' from eight to ten. Then you enforce those rules and hey presto, there'll be more English players in the Premier League. Pretty sure the reason for "home grown" is to get round discrimination laws. You can't discriminate against people based on their nationality for employment in this country (or most). Changing to U19 is pointless. The problem age for players is 19-21 as they are often too old for youth teams and not quite developed enough to keep up a first team place. This is where most players drop out of the system. The B team thing is nonsense though. Players can go out on loan to the lower leagues to get competitive football without ripping the soul out of the lower leagues. I actually think the biggest reason for the problem facing English football is the high fees commanded for English players (which the home grown rule contributes to). Big clubs are buying up younger and younger players in order to try and get them cheaper rather than waiting until they have fully developed and then buying the best players. This means instead of staying at lower league clubs and playing young players go into Academy's and stagnate in non-competitive football.That's an interesting way of looking at it actually, never thought of it that way before.
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sween
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Post by sween on May 8, 2014 17:30:23 GMT
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Cashis
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Post by Cashis on May 8, 2014 17:38:45 GMT
Yes, it might have been enforced through having to fund our stadium, but look at what happens when a team relies on it's youth players and pushes them into the first team at 18, 19, 20. They don't win a trophy for a few years, get reminded of this every waking minute of the fucking day, and then people wonder why there's such pressure on young players and why other clubs don't give them a chance?
The very same people who build up the mass importance on win or bust, and then wonder why teams aren't taking chances on youth?
I could go into dissertationesque details about a wide range of issues that are wrong with English football from the top down, as could most of us, but what's the point? Money talks louder than any of us ever could.
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Mycon
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Post by Mycon on May 8, 2014 18:13:04 GMT
It sounds even shitter when he explains it there.
No country in Europe has a league system like the English system. The Championship is the 4th most attended league in the world. He keeps mentioning other European leagues, I'm sure many of them are envious of England that they are so well supported.
In defence of England, they have produced rare creative talents like Scholes, Hoddle etc that were mismanaged for one reason or another. Stuff like playing Lampard and Gerrard in a midfield two for years isn't a fault of the system.
In recent times the dodgy system has produced the likes of Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Terry, Ashley Cole, but I am Sol Campbell, Rooney, Owen, Shearer.
Then you have the likes of Giggs and Bale for other British nations.
They've lacked a creative midfielder but then Scholes retired in 2004 and you never really found a way to get the best out of him. It happens. No decent left winger? Portugal can't find a class striker anywhere. That's international football for you, you can't buy away your deficiencies. Isn't going to be a B league that's gonna change that. If they really want to be like the Spanish, they should look more at the statistics about coaches.
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sween
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Post by sween on May 8, 2014 18:16:08 GMT
Still makes me giggle that we're trusting some old Brentford chairman, Danny fucking Mills and Howard "19 points" Wilkinson to make such massive decisions. And people wonder why the national team is suffering. Fucks sake
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Star of Spurs
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Post by Star of Spurs on May 8, 2014 18:21:37 GMT
all the competent logical footballing men were bought by the much more profitable club systems long ago. they are tragically the best of the rest
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AlexC
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Post by AlexC on May 8, 2014 18:30:29 GMT
Still makes me giggle that we're trusting some old Brentford chairman, Danny fucking Mills and Howard "19 points" Wilkinson to make such massive decisions. And people wonder why the national team is suffering. Fucks sake He actually did good things at Brentford so I'm surprised he has gone down the mega cunt route.
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sween
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Post by sween on May 8, 2014 18:35:32 GMT
you'd think it would make him more inclined not to fuck over the smaller clubs. he thinks he's gonna get 2 or 3 mid table B teams in each league so it won't be a total clusterfuck, he's deluded.
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AlexC
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Post by AlexC on May 8, 2014 18:36:53 GMT
To be fair he does support Manchester United and Brentford so that may suggest the cunty idea.
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Mycon
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Post by Mycon on May 8, 2014 18:38:58 GMT
Yeah, United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal will want one. Spurs and Everton will want one. That's 7, then the likes of Newcastle and West Ham will want one and then someone like Aston Villa will be like 'we're as big as them and we should have one', all of a sudden the whole league wants a B team.
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Star of Spurs
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Post by Star of Spurs on May 8, 2014 18:51:55 GMT
what divine right to ANY of those sides have over historic clubs in the lower divisions
if a player is going to become something, they're going to succeed. more competition hasn't stopped truly talented players like wilshere, sterling, barkley & shaw succeeding at their academy clubs. if you're good enough and you're determined, barring incident you'll get your chance
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