Бенне
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Post by Бенне on Oct 19, 2014 10:48:43 GMT
I know sween and Star of Spurs were talking about this on twitter, might have been a few others as well but what are people's opinions on him playing again? Apparently my Student Union's got a petition going to stop Sheffield United signing him.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 10:53:59 GMT
I think he got unfairly locked up, your one sounded like a right slag who drank too much and then proceeded to ruin a mans life in the process.
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Post by Germany's Top Scorer on Oct 19, 2014 10:57:03 GMT
iirc on the old forum Cashis posted some stuff from her twitter that just points to her having done this before in order to get money. Read somewhere that there's hotel CCTV showing the girl crouching down to pick something up whilst wearing high heels. Which would be pretty difficult if you were that drunk. #justiceforChad
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Post by The Quito Diet on Oct 19, 2014 11:14:46 GMT
Don't think he raped her, surprised he got convicted as it seemed to be on the basis that she couldn't give consent rather than she actively didn't and I thought they'd have been unable to jail him on that basis.
Also think the tweets about "when she wins, she'll buy a car, go on holiday etc..." summed the incident up somewhat.
Do I think he raped her? No. Do I think she got so absolutely paraletically drunk that she can't recall what happened, but, was absent minded enough that she was aware what was going on at the time? Yes.
Surprised his partner has stuck by him. Think as he's convicted I can understand the fans viewpoints, I wouldn't want him playing for my club as a convicted rapist, however he has every right to go back to his job just as all other criminals do once serving their time. Mental feminists going off on Twitter pissing me right off spamming any sponsors or affiliates of Sheffield United demanding them to drop it, white male privilage etc etc etc
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Stu
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Post by Stu on Oct 19, 2014 11:16:32 GMT
Don't think he done it, wrongly put inside.
Hope Sheff Utd do take him back on and he continues his career. If they don't then I will on FM!
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JM
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Post by JM on Oct 19, 2014 11:38:15 GMT
Who knows what happened in the "rape" incident. It's just the fact that he got put in prison makes everyone think that he probably would have done it and that's why everyone's kicking off about Sheff Utd apparently offering him a new contract.
Honestly don't care if he comes back.
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U R GAY
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Post by U R GAY on Oct 19, 2014 11:57:43 GMT
Christ! Very surprised by the reaction on here. It's not exactly easy to get sent down for rape, especially when there's another bloke being charged with the exact same thing and is cleared. There must have been some pretty solid evidence for him to get a conviction. You can't possibly use hearsay, rumours and personal opinions based on no evidence as an argument vs a jury conviction who had all the evidence. In the eyes of the law, Ched Evans is a rapist, do I want a rapist representing my football club? (especially as one who could probably do with a striker of Evans quality) Absolutely not. I'm sure a club will take him on, and equally reprehensible criminals have already been welcomed back into football so it's not exactly new ground. At what stage will clubs develop a moral conscious? Would a child molester get another job after he served his sentence? Probably, if he was good enough. Should Ched Evans be allowed to go back into work after serving his sentence? Absolutely, there are tons of jobs out there. Has he the same rights to work as law-abiding citizens? No. Going back to the child molestor example, it's like saying, well they used to be a teacher, they've served their sentence, now they want to work as a teacher, they should be allowed to resume that career. Of course they shouldn't! Ched Evans job as a footballer requires him to have a public image, and for that there are certain crimes, surely rape is one of them, that you cannot come back from and certain doors of employment should close to you. *Although like Stu, I'll probably buy him on FM too
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Star of Spurs
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Post by Star of Spurs on Oct 19, 2014 12:00:31 GMT
wrote a huge essay on why i don't think he should play before my chrome crashed, cheers for that laptop m8
i don't feel he should play again. the basic gist of the case was that the girl gave consent to mcdonald but not to him - consent isn't your mate texting you to come to someone's room to fuck. consent is a clear, sober yes, not the absence of a no. the weird seedy reaction of people releasing her name and threatening her to the point where she had to leave town also was unnerving since all these people know for certain is that a court ruled she was raped, not to mention the other weird seedyness like how judy finnigan somehow thinks lack of violence makes a rape less-rapey
he's got every right to protest his innocence but a court ruled he was guilty, which carries far more weight especially considering the frankly frightening amount of rapists who don't do any time at all. and yes prison should be for rehabilitation and you should be allowed a life but it does not owe you a right to work in a certain field. a criminal record affects employability in almost every industry, and in one where players, like it or not, are idolized and adulated, a convicted rapist should not be celebrated and revered. it gives a weird message of acceptance to this sort of thing
evan's own QC said after the conviction that his career was lost. it should be
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on Oct 19, 2014 12:03:59 GMT
Christ! Very surprised by the reaction on here. It's not exactly easy to get sent down for rape, especially when there's another bloke being charged with the exact same thing and is cleared. There must have been some pretty solid evidence for him to get a conviction. You can't possibly use hearsay, rumours and personal opinions based on no evidence as an argument vs a jury conviction who had all the evidence. In the eyes of the law, Ched Evans is a rapist, do I want a rapist representing my football club? (especially as one who could probably do with a striker of Evans quality) Absolutely not. I'm sure a club will take him on, and equally reprehensible criminals have already been welcomed back into football so it's not exactly new ground. At what stage will clubs develop a moral conscious? Would a child molester get another job after he served his sentence? Probably, if he was good enough. Should Ched Evans be allowed to go back into work after serving his sentence? Absolutely, there are tons of jobs out there. Has he the same rights to work as law-abiding citizens? No. Going back to the child molestor example, it's like saying, well they used to be a teacher, they've served their sentence, now they want to work as a teacher, they should be allowed to resume that career. Of course they shouldn't! Ched Evans job as a footballer requires him to have a public image, and for that there are certain crimes, surely rape is one of them, that you cannot come back from and certain doors of employment should close to you. *Although like Stu, I'll probably buy him on FM too A teacher going back to being a teacher doesn't happen because that puts children at risk by being in close, frequent contact with the teacher. That's different to Evans going back to being a footballer. Having a public image isnt going to make him more of less likely to re-offend.
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on Oct 19, 2014 12:05:52 GMT
it gives a weird message of acceptance to this sort of thing Or does it give an acceptance to rehabilitating criminals who have served their time that the law handed down to them? I'm not for or against him returning to football. I can understand the arguments of both sides.
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Post by The Quito Diet on Oct 19, 2014 12:12:29 GMT
Christ! Very surprised by the reaction on here. It's not exactly easy to get sent down for rape, especially when there's another bloke being charged with the exact same thing and is cleared. There must have been some pretty solid evidence for him to get a conviction. You can't possibly use hearsay, rumours and personal opinions based on no evidence as an argument vs a jury conviction who had all the evidence. In the eyes of the law, Ched Evans is a rapist, do I want a rapist representing my football club? (especially as one who could probably do with a striker of Evans quality) Absolutely not. I'm sure a club will take him on, and equally reprehensible criminals have already been welcomed back into football so it's not exactly new ground. At what stage will clubs develop a moral conscious? Would a child molester get another job after he served his sentence? Probably, if he was good enough. Should Ched Evans be allowed to go back into work after serving his sentence? Absolutely, there are tons of jobs out there. Has he the same rights to work as law-abiding citizens? No. Going back to the child molestor example, it's like saying, well they used to be a teacher, they've served their sentence, now they want to work as a teacher, they should be allowed to resume that career. Of course they shouldn't! Ched Evans job as a footballer requires him to have a public image, and for that there are certain crimes, surely rape is one of them, that you cannot come back from and certain doors of employment should close to you. *Although like Stu, I'll probably buy him on FM too Her tweets were not brought to the courts attention until after the case, iirc. That McDonald was cleared and Evans wasn't is already a giant question mark over the case. Quote from the judge was that ''As the jury have found, she was in no condition to have sexual intercourse'', and yet McDonald was cleared and Evans was not? The woman has no reccollection whatsoever of the incident. At all. Evidence? The only evidence is that she was absolutely paraletic and then can't remember what happened. Is that enough to decide, in the eyes of the law, that McDonald had her consent but Evans did not? I agree that I wouldn't want a convicted rapist to play for my club, and I'm glad that his appeal process has been fast tracked so that there'll be an answer as to whether he was wrongly jailed sooner rather than later (though I fear certain groups of people will never be happy regardless the outcome of that appeal), so at least a decision will be made. Why should football be closed to him because of this though? It's a job. He will still suffer significant losses through lack of sponsorships and massively deflated image rights, he's still entitled to earn a wage.
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U R GAY
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Post by U R GAY on Oct 19, 2014 12:15:42 GMT
It potentially does make him more likely to re-offend OOTER - money & celebrity gives him false sense of power & ego that you could argue played a part in his decision, it puts him around a young 'lad' male dominated environment that you could also argue played a factor in his decision.
Either way, for me the bigger issue as SOS says, it's putting a convicted rapist in a position to be celebrated & hero worshiped which is just wrong.
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Star of Spurs
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Post by Star of Spurs on Oct 19, 2014 12:17:05 GMT
it gives a weird message of acceptance to this sort of thing Or does it give an acceptance to rehabilitating criminals who have served their time that the law handed down to them? I'm not for or against him returning to football. I can understand the arguments of both sides. this is where i feel the very different identities between rape and most other criminal offences come into play. if a player is arrested for tax evasion for example, i wouldn't particularly have a problem with him playing afterwards, especially since messi's so bloody good and all. but the issue is entirely around the nature of the crime - rape is just about one of the worst things you can do, and it is frighteningly common. allowing him to play on, as if punishment for it was just a distraction and he can go back to normality afterwards would appear to be valuing the career of the criminal over respect to the victim (not just in terms of this case, in terms of representing the hundred of thousands of rape cases that happen every year)
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Post by The Quito Diet on Oct 19, 2014 12:17:50 GMT
wrote a huge essay on why i don't think he should play before my chrome crashed, cheers for that laptop m8 i don't feel he should play again. the basic gist of the case was that the girl gave consent to mcdonald but not to him - consent isn't your mate texting you to come to someone's room to fuck. consent is a clear, sober yes, not the absence of a no. the weird seedy reaction of people releasing her name and threatening her to the point where she had to leave town also was unnerving since all these people know for certain is that a court ruled she was raped, not to mention the other weird seedyness like how judy finnigan somehow thinks lack of violence makes a rape less-rapey he's got every right to protest his innocence but a court ruled he was guilty, which carries far more weight especially considering the frankly frightening amount of rapists who don't do any time at all. and yes prison should be for rehabilitation and you should be allowed a life but it does not owe you a right to work in a certain field. a criminal record affects employability in almost every industry, and in one where players, like it or not, are idolized and adulated, a convicted rapist should not be celebrated and revered. it gives a weird message of acceptance to this sort of thing evan's own QC said after the conviction that his career was lost. it should be Yet the judge himself, as above, said she was in no condition to give consent walking into the hotel. So how can McDonald be cleared and Evans not? Consent is an absolute minefield to negotiate, especially when alcohol is involved. Guarantee every single person here has done something when drunk they'd never dream of doing when sober; what's to say this lass wasn't so drunk she thought it'd be a good idea at the time? After all, there's just as much evidence that that's the case than there is that she said no. She was threatened for her tweets that shined her as a gold digger, not for any other sinister reason. Judy Finnigan didn't say that either, she used the exact same wording the Judge used but of course that'll be ignored because it's easy to go on a good old witch hunt. Judge's quotes, again, for your interest; Bloody judges, saying a rape was less rapey. Of course a criminal record effects employability, just as it does in football. It's obviously to a different level across industries (you're far more likely to get a career as a football as a rapist than you are a police officer, say), but it's ludicrous to hold up football as some sort of bastion of ethics and morals and suggest it should bolt up the doors to a bloke who's served his punishment.
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Cashis
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Post by Cashis on Oct 19, 2014 12:18:59 GMT
She was clearly traumatised when she bragged on Twitter about how she was going to spend all the money she'd be getting (a massive slap to the face of all real rape victims). He has every right to play football again and I'd be chuffed to have him at my club (although obviously he wouldn't join us lol)
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