Slim Jim
Regular
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Post by Slim Jim on Jun 5, 2016 12:27:25 GMT
I got mine in the post last week. I'm voting to leave. Why?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 12:43:04 GMT
I don't know enough about it either way so I think it would be irresponsible for me to vote.
However I can understand why people would vote to leave. For those who are undecided it doesn't take much to be swayed either way and when there is a constant flow of stories on the likes of the mail online about illegals who are seemingly getting into the UK with relative ease and are catered for and then go on to commit horrible crimes it leaves people up in arms. That is the image the media paint anyway.
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notpropaganda
Key Player
Eden 'Azarrrrrrrr!
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Team: Republic of Ireland
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Post by notpropaganda on Jun 5, 2016 12:48:28 GMT
Mail online... Bastion of journalism
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Post by The Quito Diet on Jun 5, 2016 12:51:32 GMT
The issue with these referenda is that people start quoting numbers and economical issues and nobody actually knows what will happen with those things it's all scaremongering. The real driving reason to vote is what kind of country do you want the UK to be? These things are idealogical, just like the Scottish referendum. Obviously that gets lost in the economy and immigrant chat Aye, it's impossible to know how things will pan out and so there is a large element of fear vs optimism that's driving the argument but with most voters being fickle morons (and you know politicians know this but have to pander to it rather than admit it) it's all about headlines and propaganda. Leave campaign saying we can make free trade deals around the world and that the EU will obviously start a new trade deal with us right away because it's "common sense" yet has no actual evidence to suggest that would be the case. Basically, it's the leave campaigns responsibility to set out a justified, referenced and substantiated argument to leave and they've not come close to doing so. Instead they've tapped into the bigotry and xenophobia and focused solely on immigration (and lumped the different times of migration, economic, illegal, desperation etc...) having tried and failed to win the economic argument when their figures unravelled. Plus Gove today saying that even if we did vote to exit, it wouldn't happen until at least 2020, will be glossed over as they know most leavers seem to think it'd happen the next day and we'd have trade deals all sorted in 48 hours. Starting to think this is how some of the Aye campaigners felt in Scotland only with the opposite emotion, rather than optimism about how good an out result would be (even if based on dodgy figures given the collapse in oil prices), I've got massive pessimism about just how fucking terrible us voting to leave will turn out to be over the next 20 years.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 12:52:10 GMT
Well that was one example but I believe they're one of if not the biggest online news outlet. Regardless, they have a massive audience and all it takes is one story like that and someones mind is made up. That was my point.
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Star of Spurs
Key Player
alcohol and night swimming
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Post by Star of Spurs on Jun 5, 2016 13:26:34 GMT
we'll end up leaving. too many of the older population have been swayed by the fear of the mail
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Stu
Talisman
#SparkysOnFire
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Post by Stu on Jun 5, 2016 13:28:35 GMT
not a chance we're going to leave, be about 65% stay by the end of it
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Post by Liverpool_96 on Jun 5, 2016 15:29:11 GMT
I got mine in the post last week. I'm voting to leave. Why? Just the system we have in place here needs sorted out. I believe we should be able to control our own borders like the Aussies and yes let immigrants in, but skilled ones at the least. Also with Turkey about to join the EU we're pretty much going to be connected to the middle east and have no say over who can get in. Britain is made a fool of in Europe too, there was a meeting about a United States of Europe amongst the top EU nations and we weren't at the table. I'd just like a change and no matter what, we'd cope. Norway ain't doing too bad for itself.
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notpropaganda
Key Player
Eden 'Azarrrrrrrr!
Posts: 8,470
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Post by notpropaganda on Jun 5, 2016 15:41:44 GMT
Lol Turkey are not about to join and there's questions whether they'd even want to considering the state of the EU economically
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Post by The Quito Diet on Jun 5, 2016 15:41:45 GMT
Just the system we have in place here needs sorted out. I believe we should be able to control our own borders like the Aussies and yes let immigrants in, but skilled ones at the least. Also with Turkey about to join the EU we're pretty much going to be connected to the middle east and have no say over who can get in. Britain is made a fool of in Europe too, there was a meeting about a United States of Europe amongst the top EU nations and we weren't at the table. I'd just like a change and no matter what, we'd cope. Norway ain't doing too bad for itself. But you have the same opportunity to work anywhere in the EU as a result, it's a benefit that works both ways. Turkey isn't anywhere close to joining the EU and every single EU member state has the power to veto them joining. How are we made a fool of in Europe? Norway example is illogical given their vastly different circumstances, and even if you take it as an example, it took them several years just to establish trade deals.
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Post by you give me rrrroad rrrrage on Jun 5, 2016 16:03:22 GMT
There are 35 policy areas which countries need to satisfy before they're allowed to join the EU. Turkey started their application process almost 30 years ago and they've so far satisfied one. There are big stumbling blocks (like their failure to recognise another EU member, Cyprus, as one state) in the way. Their current president has also been rolling back human rights and press freedoms. I think most estimates I've have them being 10-20 years away at best, and that's if everything goes perfectly from now.
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Post by Liverpool_96 on Jun 5, 2016 16:13:56 GMT
I thought they were close to a deal regarding them joining for taking back immigrants and stopping the flow from Syria? Didn't they also get a massive handout from the EU to implement that?
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Post by you give me rrrroad rrrrage on Jun 5, 2016 16:20:22 GMT
That's not Turkey joining the EU, though. The migrant deal is a separate issue.
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Post by Liverpool_96 on Jun 5, 2016 16:23:11 GMT
Yeah but was that not part of the deal? Sure I read that somewhere.
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Post by The Quito Diet on Jun 5, 2016 16:25:39 GMT
Even if it was, we could veto it just as all other EU members can.
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