EdinBruges
Manager
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Group C
Jun 20, 2024 17:59:18 GMT
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Post by EdinBruges on Jun 20, 2024 17:59:18 GMT
He's playing through a shoulder injury tbf but yeah, he's looked fatigued and has been less effective for the last few weeks with Madrid too. Definitely not been as effective for the full 90.
Feel like far too many pundits with vested interest are trying to push their own arguments about what's wrong. Richards won't criticise Foden. Shearer won't criticise Kane. Ferdinand won't criticise Trent.
I worry that the players/manager are in a bubble to think that some (not all) valid criticism is just noise.
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Post by ChappyHova on Jun 20, 2024 18:02:54 GMT
Reminded me of England of old that where you see them mentally folding and having no idea what's happening, like the weight of the world is on their shoulders. Not really been like that under Southgate before, he was the first manager in my lifetime where he seemed to lift that somehow.
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EdinBruges
Manager
Posts: 24,484 ![Male Male](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/icons/male.png)
Likes: 7,334
Team: Arsenal
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Group C
Jun 20, 2024 18:08:45 GMT
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Post by EdinBruges on Jun 20, 2024 18:08:45 GMT
Is it any surprise though? Look at the reaction to taking four points from our two toughest group games.
Yes I know the performances have been woeful but the reaction has been just as ridiculous. At half time they were essentially questioning whether Kane, who just scored more than a goal a game for Bayern Munich, needs to retire.
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Stu
Talisman
#SparkysOnFire
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Team: Southampton
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Post by Stu on Jun 20, 2024 18:13:11 GMT
it baffles me that so many pundits and fans think that Kane is the issue in this England team at the moment
talking about how his legs have gone and he needs to do more, hes literally doing the same thing thats got him about 75 goals in the last 2 seasons. if you cant set up a team to make harry kane effective then you should probably just resign
trent needs to be moved out of midfield, its basically a wasted sub after an hour of him doing nothing and then bringing gallagher on. drop bellingham in with rice, foden into the middle behind kane, saka and gordon running off kane as he drops deep
how fucking hard is it?
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Post by ChappyHova on Jun 20, 2024 18:15:55 GMT
Is it any surprise though? Look at the reaction to taking four points from our two toughest group games. Yes I know the performances have been woeful but the reaction has been just as ridiculous. At half time they were essentially questioning whether Kane, who just scored more than a goal a game for Bayern Munich, needs to retire. Was saying to Stu that only English fans and pundits could make the likes of Kane, Foden and Trent out to be huge problems instead of wondering why it’s not working. Trent I kind of understand because he’s not really a midfielder but people were shouting for Gallagher to come on and all he did was charge around fouling people.
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Group C
Jun 20, 2024 20:32:39 GMT
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Post by Visar Musliukas on Jun 20, 2024 20:32:39 GMT
Reminded me of England of old that where you see them mentally folding and having no idea what's happening, like the weight of the world is on their shoulders. Not really been like that under Southgate before, he was the first manager in my lifetime where he seemed to lift that somehow. thats a case of being so extremely shit for so long, which led to our expectations being lowered. This is the international equivalent of a new manager bounce officially wearing off. Happy to eat my words as we’re pretty much qualified, so it aint depressing yet. But these guys gotta sort out the team very soon
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Post by Bollozczkowski on Jun 20, 2024 23:43:20 GMT
He's literally just dribbled past players and ran at them, shot wasn't the best yeah but at least he's wanting to play football and have a go Glad someone else realised that he was easily the best player of the front 4 tonight while being shoved into a role that doesn't suit him, but lol yeah Foden is shit
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Post by Bollozczkowski on Jun 21, 2024 0:05:51 GMT
I honestly think the only players that can possibly come out with credit tonight are Guehi, Saka, Foden, and probably Trippier (who isn't good but is doing the best he can in a fucking stupid role). I'm the biggest England apologist but that was absolutely woeful.
Southgate deserves blame, but players like Rice, Kane, Bellingham and Walker who should be big players dropping those kind of performances, they have to take some responsibility. Honestly started to be funny how bad Rice was, I'm absolutely baffled what was going on with him, the ball was like a foreign object. No LB just completely limits the team, we're essentially trying to play a LWB when Foden cuts inside but we dropped Chilwell? The energy of the whole team is so low, ponderous on the ball, we are so easily pressed. We have basically one runner in behind at any time (Saka), we play an outdated 4-2-3-1 which looks incredibly static and easy to play against while most of the top teams play 4-3-3 and look fluid going forward. Constantly playing players in positions they don't play in. Gallagher being our first sub and proceeding to give the ball away and kick players for 35 minutes. That last 10 minutes of hoofing the ball up to Watkins. Obviously the group stage isn't that important but that stink needs immediately washing off. Not Iceland bad but like, not a ridiculously far amount off?
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EdinBruges
Manager
Posts: 24,484 ![Male Male](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/icons/male.png)
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Team: Arsenal
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Group C
Jun 21, 2024 8:31:02 GMT
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Post by EdinBruges on Jun 21, 2024 8:31:02 GMT
Saka was the only real threat yesterday, Foden had one or two dribbles but was also continuously taking up the positions that Bellingham or Kane were in, that free role just doesn't work, it upsets the balance of the team entirely and is also upsetting the press too.
Agree on Rice, his stats read like he had a blinding game yet he was awful.
The fact that there's even a discussion around dropping Kane is ludicrous - why people in England are continuously finding ways to criticise literally anyone other than Foden is mental. The overseas coverage (at least that of Spain and Holland that I'm aware of) have pinpointed Foden as the problem - not that it's even his fault, just that him playing out there is upsetting the entire balance of the side going forward and back.
He's being shoe horned into the side at the detriment of the squad. If you're adamant he has to play then rest Bellingham for the next game and play him in the 10 and get the best out of him.
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Post by g7vikings on Jun 21, 2024 9:05:08 GMT
You know a tournament is in full swing when England go into full meltdown after drawing with a decent team in the groups.
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Group C
Jun 21, 2024 9:08:14 GMT
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Post by Bollozczkowski on Jun 21, 2024 9:08:14 GMT
How can Saka be the only real threat when the closest we came to scoring aside from the goal was Foden hitting the post or when he chopped inside first half and hit a shot over, or when he should have slid the ball through to Kane but he still managed to create something out of nothing? I agree the balance of the team is all messed up, so dropping him should definitely be an option, but I don't think Foden was bad at all yesterday, him getting to play as a 10 has to be considered, particularly with how bad Bellingham was yesterday.
We've watched Rice be amazing as a kind of deeper 8 this season, and obviously he's so good at driving forward with the ball, and we're playing him in a role that negates all of that. There's at least 5 players starting yesterday that are playing unfamiliar roles as well. Southgate played Phillips for years because he suited the role and balance of the team, it's mad how badly he's got it wrong so far. AND I STILL DONT KNOW WHY MITCHELL ISNT THERE, you've got the add on now that he would have been playing next to his Palace teammate which makes it make even less sense. Mainoo and Gordon in for Trent and Foden is the obvious move for me.
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Group C
Jun 21, 2024 9:10:53 GMT
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Post by Bollozczkowski on Jun 21, 2024 9:10:53 GMT
You know a tournament is in full swing when England go into full meltdown after drawing with a decent team in the groups. I'll assume this is said very tongue in cheek but I'll reply sincerely, it's obviously the performance people are more worried about than the result. But if your point is more that it's still early and there's no need to panic, yeah I agree.
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Post by g7vikings on Jun 21, 2024 9:25:50 GMT
I hadn't posted in a while and just wanted to contribute ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) But yeah, its the group stages, they're probably going to finish top while sorting out some glaring issues made entirely by the manager in the first place. By the time the knockouts come around you'd have to assume Shaw will be in the team. Like you, I can't believe Mitchell or another actual LB hasn't gone. It's such a stupid decision. I don't understand why Bellingham can now only play number 10? If he does have to, Foden has to come out. I don't think Mainoo is the answer, he's obviously talented, but he empties the midfield like nobodies business (being a kid and all). International football is such a step down on elite club football, so Gallagher is absolutely fine to play there. Sure he's shite, but tournaments are full of shite players having good games. Wharton isn't a bad option either if you want to get Rice further up the field. I couldn't believe Gordon didn't get on yesterday. It was crying out for him, he is the actual type of player that was so obviously missing. But he put Eze on for more of the same, which would be worrying. Kane needs people running past him and Foden and Bellingham aren't doing it. Other than set pieces a lot of England's success in recent tournaments have come from Saka, Sterling and Rashford running in behind, stretching teams. There has been little of that so far. But I'm just an Austria fan, what do I know.
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EdinBruges
Manager
Posts: 24,484 ![Male Male](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/icons/male.png)
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Team: Arsenal
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Group C
Jun 21, 2024 10:04:28 GMT
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Post by EdinBruges on Jun 21, 2024 10:04:28 GMT
How can Saka be the only real threat when the closest we came to scoring aside from the goal was Foden hitting the post or when he chopped inside first half and hit a shot over, or when he should have slid the ball through to Kane but he still managed to create something out of nothing? I agree the balance of the team is all messed up, so dropping him should definitely be an option, but I don't think Foden was bad at all yesterday, him getting to play as a 10 has to be considered, particularly with how bad Bellingham was yesterday. We've watched Rice be amazing as a kind of deeper 8 this season, and obviously he's so good at driving forward with the ball, and we're playing him in a role that negates all of that. There's at least 5 players starting yesterday that are playing unfamiliar roles as well. Southgate played Phillips for years because he suited the role and balance of the team, it's mad how badly he's got it wrong so far. AND I STILL DONT KNOW WHY MITCHELL ISNT THERE, you've got the add on now that he would have been playing next to his Palace teammate which makes it make even less sense. Mainoo and Gordon in for Trent and Foden is the obvious move for me. So apart from the actual goal, or the Saka header that nearly went in that you've not mentioned, the nearest we got was Foden hitting the post (fair) and then blazing over with a pot-shot. Twice Kane/Bellingham had a got at him for not playing it to them in better positions. He was better than he was against Serbia and his ineffectiveness isn't even mostly his fault, it's the position and tactics. But so many times yesterday he was occupying the spaces that other places were in. Look at the 1st half positional map after we scored, he was essentially in the same spot as Kane was in the middle. Criticism of Foden is perfectly valid and it's the biggest issue that needs solving for the balance of the team - he's just the unfortunate one in that he's being shoe-horned into a role that doesn't suit him and for that, Southgate needs to ultimately take responsibility. What the last two games have done is prove that large parts of the media haven't learned from the Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes era and they're continuing to advocate for a team full of the best players rather than the best players for the team/system. I hate the idea being floated of Bellingham/Rice because you then lose the best of them both. It's Jude/Foden for the 10, and then I want to see Wharton/Mainoo alongside Rice. Also the reaction to Southgate saying we haven't replaced Phillips just shows up who doesn't really understand football - the bloke was a key part of the midfield and structure that got us to a Euros final. Valid criticism of Southgate not to have solved it sooner but it shouldn't be difficult to understand why that balance isn't there without him and his style of play.
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EdinBruges
Manager
Posts: 24,484 ![Male Male](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/icons/male.png)
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Team: Arsenal
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Group C
Jun 21, 2024 10:05:06 GMT
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Post by EdinBruges on Jun 21, 2024 10:05:06 GMT
Ooooft, waiting for a hospital appointment and clearly was trying to pass the time there.
Should have used bright pink font.
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