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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 19:32:24 GMT
Glad we said no, lets move on now. You can't expect 45% of the country to just stand down from their beliefs. The desire for Independence will remain there and I think the SNP might even be galvanized a bit by this. Labour has lost all credibility in Scotland. The Unionist parties have already broken their promise for new powers (see below) and we're only 2 days on from the fucking vote. This issue won't be dropped, let go or "moved on" from. And for the record I don't support any of these theories of fixing or any call for a revote. What I do support is the call for action to be taken over the blatant lies the UK Government told to gain No support. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29289035
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on Sept 20, 2014 19:48:21 GMT
You can't expect 45% of the country to just stand down from their beliefs. The desire for Independence will remain there and I think the SNP might even be galvanized a bit by this. Labour has lost all credibility in Scotland. The Unionist parties have already broken their promise for new powers (see below) and we're only 2 days on from the fucking vote. This issue won't be dropped, let go or "moved on" from. And for the record I don't support any of these theories of fixing or any call for a revote. What I do support is the call for action to be taken over the blatant lies the UK Government told to gain No support. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29289035That "signed resolution" was before the referendum. Ed Miliband has today stood infront of the Labour party conference and said he does not support these new powers and he feels they should not be a priority. Scottish Labour is dead.
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Post by The Quito Diet on Sept 20, 2014 22:07:31 GMT
So long as Gordon Brown is around they're not. His final speech absolutely slaughtered the Yes campaign.
What Ed Milliband has actually said refers not only to Scotland but England too; he doesn't want Cameron to rush into devolving all powers and essentially ensure that the West Lothian question is answered in such a way that a Labour government can win a majority yet be unable to pass laws for England in the house of commons.
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on Sept 20, 2014 22:22:21 GMT
He campaigned in the basis of the "agreed timetable" and now 2 days later is backing down from it. It's a disgrace and I saw it coming a mile off. It's why the Yes movement won't just disappear now.
It won't be forgotten this time though. Trust me, Labour is finished as a political force in Scotland. Expect the greens and SSP to take most of their seats in May
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 22:25:57 GMT
Tbh waiting for old people to die is occasionally the best way to make progress.
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Post by The Quito Diet on Sept 20, 2014 22:28:33 GMT
How is he backing down from it if, as @shrimper quoted, and quoted here;
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Am I missing something, from what I've read they've all committed to the timetable of action, and the full motion that will pass on Monday is;
What's wrong with that?
What makes you think Labour is finished too, given the No campaign had a clear majority and it was mostly full of Labour voters?
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Post by The Quito Diet on Sept 20, 2014 22:28:58 GMT
Sorry lots of questions I'm just genuinely trying to understand where you're coming from.
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on Sept 20, 2014 22:40:18 GMT
As I said, that was signed before the referendum. Unsurprisingly everything has changed now.
Yes that motion will go in front of parliament. Even if does get passes does it mean anything? Tory MPs have come out against more powers. The Labour leader has now called them a low priority and does not agree that the timetable he agreed to, and signed off on, is right.
The lie is one of the hits to Labour. They've spent the last 2 years, and more intensely the last few months, campaigning with the Tories against the middle classes of Scotland. That won't be forgotten. 38% of labour voters from the last election already voted Yes. A large proportion of the rest voted no on the basis that more powers were coming as per this timetable. Today I've seen the Green Party and SNP membership numbers skyrocket with many coming from labour. Check out the photos of labour membership cards being set on fire on twitter.
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on Sept 20, 2014 22:52:11 GMT
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ic
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Adam Johnson fucks children
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Post by ic on Sept 20, 2014 22:59:51 GMT
The next election is going to be an interesting one. I'm not sure ed miliband realised the impact going back on his words would have. The snp are only going to grow in strength now. Labour's pretty much finished. The lib dems will be on their way out up here in the highlands thanks to Danny Alexander.
Referendum 3.0 anyone?
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on Sept 20, 2014 23:04:14 GMT
IC I know you were a No voter before they used this "offer" of more powers but what do you make of it all?
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Post by The Quito Diet on Sept 20, 2014 23:06:37 GMT
But it was signed, and the motion is going through parliament on Monday. And it includes explicitly that the government is required to complete a Command Paper, comprising of all three parties proposals, by the 30th October, and to consult with Scotland on said proposals. Where's this lie you keep mentioning? Really don't think Labour will be hit as bad as you're suggesting tbh, they'll still retain a large core of their support from the elderly and the lifelong Labour voters, but they stand no chance (as do any of the other UK parties) or attracting any of the youth vote. Also a point to pick up on, Labour and Tory protesting against the middle class in Scotland? It was those that they mostly relied on for votes I thought, with the working class making up the bulk of the Yes vote? This article is great btw; www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/11110955/Scotland-What-the-future-holds.html. Sums up the financial flaws with the Yes campaign and why there was such uncertainty about their figures, then goes on to explain pretty much what I expect will happen moving forward;
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ic
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Post by ic on Sept 20, 2014 23:14:05 GMT
I think that the percentage of the vote that swung it, more maybe, has been fucking conned by miliband. It's sickening in all honesty, and the fact that so many blatant lies had been told to keep the status quo tells me that people's true feelings haven't been shown at the ballot. I'm a bit confused in all honesty.
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Olivier
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Post by Olivier on Sept 20, 2014 23:16:37 GMT
Yes I meant working classes, this is why I shouldn't type a post while trying to keep up with an episode of Suits.
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jambo
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Post by jambo on Sept 20, 2014 23:21:59 GMT
This is funny
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