Mycon
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Con My-Ji also acceptable
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Post by Mycon on May 7, 2014 0:01:42 GMT
It's something that I often debate with my housemate who often dismisses the claims of the Brazilian Ronaldo but who now is the better Ronaldo, Luiz or Cristiano?
Personally I think that the Brazilian one had more ability but the Portuguese one has probably achieved more because he wasn't fucked over by injuries and other problems right in the middle of his peak.
At the same time, Ronaldo is still the all-time leading goalscorer and was a star player at two World Cups.
Cristiano is always improving though and this has possibly been his best ever year so far.
Luiz Ronaldo had more of a wow factor for me but Cristiano is more consistently clinical and has an array of impressive goalscoring records.
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sween
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Post by sween on May 7, 2014 0:02:44 GMT
Cristiano is imo but he suffers from no World Cup syndrome like Messi.
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FL
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Post by FL on May 7, 2014 0:26:04 GMT
I don't really remember seeing a whole lot of Ronaldo. To say his main peak was 94-2007 I was like 1-14 years old, and I can't say I watched football religiously at those ages.
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jaffers
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Post by jaffers on May 7, 2014 1:11:06 GMT
Christiano. Here's my reason why:
Luis was great, you can't deny that. He had technical ability, and backs it up with his trophies. The one key thing you'd look at though is football now and then are completely different animals. The game has become so much more high paced, athletic and technical. Christiano has been consistently dominant as the overall level of his competition has gone up and up. Not to say that Luis was playing a bunch of fuckwits with no talent. For example though, look at the mid to lower league teams now and then. You can't deny that the overall quality has shot up, which for me is where the crux of the comparison comes down. Technically they are both brilliant, in terms of career success they both have achieved a fantastic amount. The big difference for me though, is that Christiano has done it in a much more competitive era of football.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 1:57:33 GMT
Are we already using the 'easier competition' argument against the prior generation of players? It's not like Ronaldo played in the 60s ffs.
I don't see the quality of football from the late 90s-early 2000s being so different to the late 00s onwards, if anything I would say that there was better defending.
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notpropaganda
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Post by notpropaganda on May 7, 2014 2:03:20 GMT
Maybe it's the nostalgic kid in me but Ronaldo was just pure magic to watch. I think if you want to see a player with just pure talent, he was the guy, even more so than Messi in terms of talent. Just an incredible player.
But yeh Cristiano has probably eclipsed him considering his achievements. If he ever manages to drag Portugal to a WC semi or a Euro trophy than he'll have done pretty much everything. He's obviously insanely talented as well... I dunno.
I guess it comes down to, when people talk about the greatest players ever it's Pele, Maradona, and are Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi now on that level? Brazilian Ronaldo rarely gets on those lists, as amazing as he was - injuries probably sees to that.
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jaffers
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Post by jaffers on May 7, 2014 2:08:05 GMT
Are we already using the 'easier competition' argument against the prior generation of players? It's not like Ronaldo played in the 60s ffs. I don't see the quality of football from the late 90s-early 2000s being so different to the late 00s onwards, if anything I would say that there was better defending. It's true though lol You seem surprised about a step up in performance from one generation to the next. Better medical/dietary knowledge, advances in the technical World etc. have made it so that if you took a look at the players that make up the leagues from now and from then, you'd be able to say that overall this generation is better.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 2:11:37 GMT
I guess it comes down to, when people talk about the greatest players ever it's Pele, Maradona, and are Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi now on that level? Brazilian Ronaldo rarely gets on those lists, as amazing as he was - injuries probably sees to that. I don't know about that, I see him frequently mentioned as one of the all-time greats and the only modern (post-1990) player I see receive as much acclaim as Ronaldo is Zidane.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 2:13:59 GMT
Are we already using the 'easier competition' argument against the prior generation of players? It's not like Ronaldo played in the 60s ffs. I don't see the quality of football from the late 90s-early 2000s being so different to the late 00s onwards, if anything I would say that there was better defending. It's true though lol You seem surprised about a step up in performance from one generation to the next. Better medical/dietary knowledge, advances in the technical World etc. have made it so that if you took a look at the players that make up the leagues from now and from then, you'd be able to say that overall this generation is better. There is hardly a difference from the period in time of which they played, they spent the bulk of their careers in the same decade.
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notpropaganda
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Post by notpropaganda on May 7, 2014 2:23:36 GMT
I guess it comes down to, when people talk about the greatest players ever it's Pele, Maradona, and are Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi now on that level? Brazilian Ronaldo rarely gets on those lists, as amazing as he was - injuries probably sees to that. I don't know about that, I see him frequently mentioned as one of the all-time greats and the only modern (post-1990) player I see receive as much acclaim as Ronaldo is Zidane. I'd agree that he's one of the all time greats I just don't know if sometimes he gets forgotten about, especially recently. I love him and I still remember being devastated for him in '98 and them seeing him in the '02 final was just brilliant. Typically Brazilian, magic player with iconic moments. That's why I'd pick him over Cristiano, who has consistently delivered but with all his goals, all his spectacular goals, where are his iconic moments?
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jaffers
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Post by jaffers on May 7, 2014 2:24:44 GMT
I think the game in the past 10 years has come on leaps and bounds, in my opinion there is a clearly difference in quality. It might not be absolutely immense, but it's still there.
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Mycon
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Post by Mycon on May 7, 2014 3:19:06 GMT
It's a very weak argument to use about the game evolving in this case when 10 years ago Ronaldo was one of the best strikers in the world. It barely constitutes a new generation. Pele and Ronaldo on the other hand you could make this case.
In the same way, the Ballon d'Or winner in 10 years isn't going to be better than Ronaldo and Messi but by your logic they would be because the game had gotten better.
90s/early 00s had some of the best defenders in history. Thuram, Maldini, Cannavaro, Nesta, Desailly, Adams, Stam, Campbell etc.
If anything the Barcelona effect made the game more attacking, you've seen 100 goals and around it scored by a lot of top teams. That's part of the reason Messi and Ronaldo mirror the records of the late 50s and early 60s because goal averages are increasing.
Anyway I'm of an opinion that great players are great players no matter what the era. There are dross in every year in the same way that there are elite players in every era. Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Beckenbauer are always legends of the game and would be in whenever they played.
One of the great scoring records I think was Platini scoring 20 goals in 28 games in 1984 at the height of catenaccio in what was by far the best league in the world at the time. That season, no-one in the top 12 conceded more than 40 goals in the whole season. In 2010-11 in La Liga, Sevilla were 5th conceding 61 goals, most teams in the top half conceded around 50 goals a season. All the seasons around that, the top scorer was between the likes of Platini, Maradona and Zico, with single digit scorers getting in the top few of the rankings.
This was also in the middle of defender hacking, just look up Claudio Gentile on Maradona. Think he had something like 25 fouls in one match, the majority of them yellow card offences. Forwards don't have to deal with that either.
But that's another argument, Ronaldo and Cristiano Ronaldo were in very similar times, only big differences are the openness to attacking, a more lax offside rule, stronger rules on tackles from behind, the impact of Barcelona etc and the creation of more 'superclubs' all to the benefit of attackers.
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danielt
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Post by danielt on May 7, 2014 6:50:16 GMT
people who associate Messi with talent and CRon with "hard work" or whatever are complete idiots
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allah
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Post by allah on May 7, 2014 7:08:51 GMT
I think the game in the past 10 years has come on leaps and bounds, in my opinion there is a clearly difference in quality. It might not be absolutely immense, but it's still there. But wouldn't those advances also help Ronaldo? Make him even faster, even stronger, even quicker? Hell his early career was almost destroyed by injuries, advancements in the medical side of the game would also massively help him. For me I'd still go Cristiano, but he could still do with winning something internationally to affirm it.
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Post by rufussmalls on May 7, 2014 8:51:21 GMT
Growing up the Brazilian Ronaldo was my favourite player to watch. The goals he scored at Inter were nearly all pretty spectacular. He had it all. Such a shame his career was so injury ravaged. Two unbelievable players, I'd say Cristiano just edges it for me. Hearing anybody refer to the Brazilian as 'the fat Ronaldo' was always so annoying. Although Luiz Ronaldo won two world cups, in Europe he only won one league title and never won a champions league so in the comparison of the two thats got to stand against him?
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