sween
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Post by sween on Oct 20, 2014 18:17:23 GMT
because, as discussed, the minute he steps back on a football pitch he'll be away raping again and little johnny the sheffield united supporter will follow suit in no time
or something
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Post by you give me rrrroad rrrrage on Oct 20, 2014 18:33:30 GMT
because i don't think football clubs should want to employ convicted rapists. we can talk about how technically they're no different to any other business etc, but we all know that's not really true, being a footballer is different to a bus driver or shop assistant or whatever Essentially, as far as I can see your entire argument is based on your personal view of the punishment befitting a professional footballer convicted of rape and nothing else.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 18:42:22 GMT
as if anyone thinks saying someone's life was improved by a rape was in any way serious
I had something of a serious response in mind but couldn't be arsed eventually
although I would like to see how everyone would react if it came out she actually lied. a conviction is just a collection of evidence in favour of it actually happening. it is not proof. we have no proof a rape actually happened and I'll always use her reaction post event to convince me that it didn't happen because no one acts like that when they've been coerced into having unconsented sex, they just don't. rape victims do not announce it proudly. I just don't buy it at all. really don't.
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#FreeBTS
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Post by #FreeBTS on Oct 20, 2014 18:44:57 GMT
but it is indicative of a wider problem in rape victims, that's massively clear in this case i think. i don't see how you could disagree with what sos has said about rape convictions either, plenty don't come forward because they're afraid of the abuse they'll get and how they're made to feel about what happened, that's a fact? Of course it's a fact that many don't come forward through fear of not being believed, I just think it's grossly unfair to use this case as an example to hold up and say it speaks for that as a wider issue when it's very much a unique case; she wasn't abused for being raped, she wasn't even abused for being drunk and not remembering it, she was abused for bragging about it afterwards on Twitter. And in doing so she's done just as much to prevent people wanting to come forward and report rapes as those who've abused her. hmmm i need to know more about this writing it on twitter thing, because to me there's large parts of that that don't really make sense. and she definitely was abused for those things and more, we had to look at this last year. i think it's a massive problem to equate what she has supposedly done with people abusing her and the fact they thought it ok to get her name trending on twitter just found this site (http://www.corestore.org/lc.htm), which is a bit shocking actually, surprised it's up. i think far too much is being made of what she said anyway when it's really a moot point
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#FreeBTS
Talisman
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Post by #FreeBTS on Oct 20, 2014 18:51:55 GMT
because i don't think football clubs should want to employ convicted rapists. we can talk about how technically they're no different to any other business etc, but we all know that's not really true, being a footballer is different to a bus driver or shop assistant or whatever Essentially, as far as I can see your entire argument is based on your personal view of the punishment befitting a professional footballer convicted of rape and nothing else. well yeah i could have told you that, though not limited to professional footballers probably Бенне because i trust that a court of law has far more information about this than sheffield united fans (90% is a pretty random figure to pull out the air), and whether they feel it was a harsh decision or whatever is completely irrelevant when he's a convicted rapist. and given figures about rape convictions, that's pretty startling. plus if we are getting into 'harsh decision', and things that don't really mean much, i'd suggest that of course he'd plead not guilty and fight this, given his public standing and the nature of the crime i'm not sure whether pleading guilty would have ever been an option for him
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Post by Maskya Yoshida on Oct 20, 2014 18:52:39 GMT
because i don't think football clubs should want to employ convicted rapists. we can talk about how technically they're no different to any other business etc, but we all know that's not really true, being a footballer is different to a bus driver or shop assistant or whatever IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK.
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#FreeBTS
Talisman
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Post by #FreeBTS on Oct 20, 2014 18:55:13 GMT
as if anyone thinks saying someone's life was improved by a rape was in any way serious I had something of a serious response in mind but couldn't be arsed eventually although I would like to see how everyone would react if it came out she actually lied. a conviction is just a collection of evidence in favour of it actually happening. it is not proof. we have no proof a rape actually happened and I'll always use her reaction post event to convince me that it didn't happen because no one acts like that when they've been coerced into having unconsented sex, they just don't. rape victims do not announce it proudly. I just don't buy it at all. really don't. she never announced it proudly either fwiw, this tweet that apparently casts doubt on her entire character doesn't reference the case at all. police don't just take rape cases to court based on very little (ie one word vs another), there's obviously some evidence this happened otherwise the case would never have went to court, never mind got a conviction also aside from the compensation people were forced to pay her after naming her on twitter (which a) she didn't report and b) she'd hardly go into a rape trial thinking that's how she'd make her money), i'm 95% sure she didn't make any money from this. someone please correct me if i'm wrong
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Post by The Quito Diet on Oct 20, 2014 18:57:48 GMT
hmmm i need to know more about this writing it on twitter thing, because to me there's large parts of that that don't really make sense. and she definitely was abused for those things and more, we had to look at this last year. i think it's a massive problem to equate what she has supposedly done with people abusing her and the fact they thought it ok to get her name trending on twitter just found this site (http://www.corestore.org/lc.htm), which is a bit shocking actually, surprised it's up. i think far too much is being made of what she said anyway when it's really a moot point Criticised maybe, abused I doubt it. Can see her being criticised for being in such a state that she can't recall any of it happening from walking into the hotel at 3am to waking up at 11am; that's not victim blaming, that's criticising her for being reckless. The abuse was only intensified after her tweets were discovered. Surprised that site hasn't been taken down, I'd genuinely not seen her be named until seeing that link. Think the timing of those tweets pretty much makes my mind up on her attitude towards it though. Rape is a truly horrible, nasty, despicable attack and I don't think that's what she endured.
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#FreeBTS
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Post by #FreeBTS on Oct 20, 2014 19:03:00 GMT
hmmm i need to know more about this writing it on twitter thing, because to me there's large parts of that that don't really make sense. and she definitely was abused for those things and more, we had to look at this last year. i think it's a massive problem to equate what she has supposedly done with people abusing her and the fact they thought it ok to get her name trending on twitter just found this site (http://www.corestore.org/lc.htm), which is a bit shocking actually, surprised it's up. i think far too much is being made of what she said anyway when it's really a moot point Criticised maybe, abused I doubt it. Can see her being criticised for being in such a state that she can't recall any of it happening from walking into the hotel at 3am to waking up at 11am; that's not victim blaming, that's criticising her for being reckless. The abuse was only intensified after her tweets were discovered. Surprised that site hasn't been taken down, I'd genuinely not seen her be named until seeing that link. Think the timing of those tweets pretty much makes my mind up on her attitude towards it though. Rape is a truly horrible, nasty, despicable attack and I don't think that's what she endured. timing of the tweets? 6 months after it happened and before there was any trial? and afraid i don't see the line between victim blaming and criticising there, when you're talking about criticising a rape victim for being reckless that's pretty poor imo, never an excuse and all that
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Бенне
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Post by Бенне on Oct 20, 2014 19:12:02 GMT
#FreeBTS lol so me saying 90% is "a random number" but then you say you're "95% sure"... If I said 95% of fans I'd be alright then?
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Star of Spurs
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Post by Star of Spurs on Oct 20, 2014 19:13:42 GMT
i don't think the intention behind people not wanting him to play again is to do with punishing evans twice and more to do with not setting a precedent wherein a person can be convicted for a crime such as rape and return to the field in a few years. rape victims have to deal with the fallout constantly, and are subjected to abuse and accusations (not just in this case, i'm using this as an emblematic thing), which is why the number of recorded rapes is so low compared to what is happening. to allow him to continue in such a privileged (both financially & socially) field would seem to value the prospects of the rapist over respect of the victim i don't have any problem with evans having a life after this, he's twenty-five, within reason he should be able to do what he wants, it's not like his choices are football or nothing. if on appeal he's found innocent then there's nothing that should stop him from returning to sheffield united or anywhere else. but he should not play again You're using this one case as an emblematic thing as if it can just speak for all rape cases everywhere, which just isn't logical. There are specific reasons why the victim in this case has been abused, don't act as if it's indiciative of a wider problem that all rape victims will endure. The number of recorded rapes and subsequent convictions is low for a multitude of reasons that people far more intelligent than you or I can't agree on so we'll leave that one. However, the argument that he shouldn't be allowed to play again just doesn't have any foundation I can see other than at it's simplest level being "Well he's a bad man he shouldn't earn so much money". No part of his sentencing said "5 years in prison and you're never allowed to earn a lot of money in a high profile job again". Are we just expected to create special rules for 'special' people because it suits certain peoples agendas? I mean, fuck, why should we let him work in a supermarket either, what respect does that show in the victim if she needs to go shopping? Bus driver? Call centre worker? Fuck let's just stop him from working altogether out of respect for the victim. I'm sure there won't be any complaints whatsoever about a convicted criminal being refused work and therefore living off the state. i can agree that the reaction is down to different circumstances, but i can't agree that it's exclusively down to that. whatever you or i or any sheffield united fan or kyle naughton thinks of the case or what happened is irrelevant - the fact (until the appeal gets back) is that he was found guilty, and therefore she was a victim in the eyes of the court. so people taking "justice" into their own hands to abuse and name the girl, inspite of whatever she may have tweeted is a worrying sign that's fair it's not even a money thing, i don't know nor particularly care how much money he made, and it's not about the level of football he plays at either. i'm not against prisoners rebuilding their lives but this is not a normal case - rape, much like racism or homophobia, should not be allowed in the game. football is not the only job evans is capable of, and you only have to look at the reaction of some sheffield united fans to see why welcoming him back might not be wise: should the actions of fans be the tipping point? no, of course not. is it a double punishment? perhaps. but the victim has had to get a new identity and leave her home town. she cannot go back to her previous life. why should evans be allowed to?
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Post by The Quito Diet on Oct 20, 2014 19:19:09 GMT
Criticised maybe, abused I doubt it. Can see her being criticised for being in such a state that she can't recall any of it happening from walking into the hotel at 3am to waking up at 11am; that's not victim blaming, that's criticising her for being reckless. The abuse was only intensified after her tweets were discovered. Surprised that site hasn't been taken down, I'd genuinely not seen her be named until seeing that link. Think the timing of those tweets pretty much makes my mind up on her attitude towards it though. Rape is a truly horrible, nasty, despicable attack and I don't think that's what she endured. timing of the tweets? 6 months after it happened and before there was any trial? and afraid i don't see the line between victim blaming and criticising there, when you're talking about criticising a rape victim for being reckless that's pretty poor imo, never an excuse and all that Before the trial, mainly. She gets into such a state of intoxication that she gets mugged at 3am and doesn't realise until 11am and she gets criticised. She gets into such a state of intoxication that she doesn't get herself home and ends up asleep on the street, she gets criticised. Of course there's never an excuse for a rape, there's also ways to greatly increase the chance of it not happening to you and making sure you don't get into such a paraletic state is one of them. Shock horror, it's possible to criticise both parties whilst one still remains a victim and one still remains an offender, and doing so doesn't justify nor blame. You can criticise someones actions without blaming them.
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Post by The Quito Diet on Oct 20, 2014 19:27:33 GMT
i can agree that the reaction is down to different circumstances, but i can't agree that it's exclusively down to that. whatever you or i or any sheffield united fan or kyle naughton thinks of the case or what happened is irrelevant - the fact (until the appeal gets back) is that he was found guilty, and therefore she was a victim in the eyes of the court. so people taking "justice" into their own hands to abuse and name the girl, inspite of whatever she may have tweeted is a worrying sign And yet, ironically, she's the victim based off of what others have told her; she has no recollection of being a victim, merely what she's been told. Which is why the specific details of this case make it such a unique example and unfair to hold it up as an example. People tweeting her name is hardly 'justice', it's against the law aye and of course it shouldn't happen but again it happened because of the specifics of this case and shouldn't be used as an overarching example. But racists and homophobes are allowed to stay in the game, after they serve their punishment. People also chant about people dying in a plane crash and dying in a stadium crush. Can condense this point down massively by just saying a lot of football fans who go to games are drunken scoundrels. Fortunately, I'd like to think they only make up a small percentage of each teams support base. Unique case, again. All rape victims don't have to get a new identity, just as all rape victims don't have no knowledge of the event and all rape victims don't make questionable comments on their Twitter account about ''winning big'' before a court case is about to take place.
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allah
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Post by allah on Oct 20, 2014 19:47:38 GMT
but it is indicative of a wider problem in rape victims, that's massively clear in this case i think. i don't see how you could disagree with what sos has said about rape convictions either, plenty don't come forward because they're afraid of the abuse they'll get and how they're made to feel about what happened, that's a fact? Of course it's a fact that many don't come forward through fear of not being believed, I just think it's grossly unfair to use this case as an example to hold up and say it speaks for that as a wider issue when it's very much a unique case; she wasn't abused for being raped, she wasn't even abused for being drunk and not remembering it, she was abused for bragging about it afterwards on Twitter. And in doing so she's done just as much to prevent people wanting to come forward and report rapes as those who've abused her. Bullshit, she was abused and not believed long before that came out.
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Post by The Quito Diet on Oct 20, 2014 19:52:20 GMT
Of course it's a fact that many don't come forward through fear of not being believed, I just think it's grossly unfair to use this case as an example to hold up and say it speaks for that as a wider issue when it's very much a unique case; she wasn't abused for being raped, she wasn't even abused for being drunk and not remembering it, she was abused for bragging about it afterwards on Twitter. And in doing so she's done just as much to prevent people wanting to come forward and report rapes as those who've abused her. Bullshit, she was abused and not believed long before that came out. Well I have no recollection of that being the case so I'll take your word for it.
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